|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8885
   |
Posted - 2014.07.31 00:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
The FW loyalty store market has always been a terribly implemented feature, quite frankly. A great idea, just poorly executed. Now since Hotfix Charlie is addressing Loyalty Point payouts to make people more interested in playing FW, now seems like a good time to point out all the mistakes with the Loyalty Store market so they can be addressed in a future hotfix. However, what I'm going to discuss here isn't the usual "missing items" or "items not unique" (at least have unique skins!) complaints, no no. I'm going to discuss something FAR more important.
The massive disparity between Loyalty Store item values
What I mean is how much value your Loyalty Points (LP) get you when you buy varying items. To fairly compare the value of all the Loyalty Store items, I ordered all the items by their ISK-Per-LP values. That is, the amount of ISK one LP is worth. Please don't say, "But these items require lower skill requirements so they are not the same!" That is entirely besides the point, all I'm trying to do here is provide a fair comparison between all items. Additionally, most competitive players already have the skill for the item they are purchasing at level 5, so they are purely buying it as an alternative means of acquiring their gear. The ISK-Per-LP value was achieved by simply taking the ISK value of the equivalent item from the normal market, subtracting the ISK value from the Loyalty Store market, and dividing all that by the LP cost of the item. The results are displayed in the falling spreadsheet.
DUST 514: Faction Warfare Loyalty Store Market Analysis
As you can see, there is a massive disparity between items. The best value item (tied between the Imperial Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle, State Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle, and Federation Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle) gets you 574.40 ISK per LP, whereas the worst value item (the Republic Flaylock Pistol) will only get you 20.36 ISK per LP. That is a difference factor of over 28!
Why is all of this important? For one because all the items need to be relatively close in ISK-Per-LP value or else many items will be completely ignored from the LP store, and why would we want that? Secondly because CCP is trying to figure out how much LP you should be paid for winning a match in FW. Currently, at level 10 you get 659 LP per victory. Using the highest value conversion, that is roughly equivalent to 378,529.60 ISK per victory. Using the lowest value conversion, that is roughly equivalent to 13,417.24 ISK per victory. The range here is far too large.
CCP, I know what you are thinking. "This would take a lot of time since we'd have to first establish a value we believe is acceptable and then we have to re-add all the items to the market with these adjusted prices. Our time is better spent elsewhere." But CCP, this isn't just a small problem, this is a massive problem. A high priority. Think about how much time it took me to gather and copy all that info to the spreadsheet and then work it out, that should give you a sense for how important this is at least to me.
If you're willing to work on this CCP, I'm willing to help and I'm sure many others are as well. Just give me a response as to whether this is something you'll look into or not so I can decide whether it's worth me putting any more effort into.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8885
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 00:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Some interesting stats,
Number of items in each value range (ISK Per LP)
500-550: 3
450-500: 0
400-450: 7
350-400: 0
300-350: 12
250-300: 1
200-250: 5
150-200: 17
100-150: 16
50-100: 110
0-50: 33
As you can see, the vast majority of items in the Loyalty Store have garbage values and no reason to purchase them (provided you already have the skills).
Highest value item of each type (ISK Per LP)
Weapon: 547.40 - all the prototype variant light weapons that are in the market
Turret: 402.98 - State XT-201 Missile Turret, but because of assumed misvalued LP cost (535 LP instead of 1105 LP), so
2nd Turret: 195.11 - State 80GJ Particle Cannon
Equipment: 326.92 - Republic Boundless Remote Explosive, but an anomaly so
2nd Equipment 196.19 - State Ishukone Nanohive
Dropsuit: 316.37 - all prototype suits except Imperial Commando ak.0
Vehicle: 135.00 - Both HAVs
Module: 76.83 - Enhanced Shield Rechargers/Energizers
Pretty much the only things worth getting are your prototype weapons and maybe your prototype suits. The exception being the two anomalies of the State XT-201 Missile Turret, which is likely an error in the market, and the Republic Boundless Remote Explosive. Past that the value drops off far too much to be considered a good investment.
Additionally, for whatever reason the Commando suits have worse value than other equivalent tier suits because their ISK cost in the loyalty store in increased.
All modules are absolutely terrible value and should never be purchased in the current state. Even the best value module is abysmally small and, funny enough, it isn't even a prototype module.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8887
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 01:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Nice find
Edit: did I just ruin your setup?
I'm not seeing anything ruined. I set it up so that only I can edit the spreadsheet, only way you could of done something is if you made a copy and edited that.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8889
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 01:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:It doesnt matter if you have a nice ISK-LP ratio. The question is: "are these items better then my generic crap"? And in most cases the answer is NO. The suits dont have better fitting, the modules dont give more HP/better reps, all of the guns avaible dont have more damage or better rate of fire. Its just not worth my time. I can run pubs and allways get payd but when i run FW and loose i get allmost nothing for my efforts. Hell its even way to hard to just fit a standard suit with faction stuff and run FW for it. So lets make a example:
Replublic assault M-I 35LP
Republic massdriver 25Lp
Republic SMG 25LP
3Xbasic republic shield extender= 60LP
basic republic regulator= 20LP
republic remote explosive= 20Lp
total: 185LP per suit
when i look at my FW earnings i maybe could get 3 or 4 of this suit if my side wins. Now if i would use the same setup but with ISK modules i would pay around 10.000 ISK per suit. When i jump into a ambush match i could quickly earn like 180k ISK within 10 minutes. Which means that 1 ambush payd for 18 of my suits. Ive earned it faster and more then i would when running FW.
I disagree with making LP items that are flat out better. Maybe different, but not simply better. And anyways even with the items exactly the same, there is still a point to FW. That point is if you work to improve your standing for a faction and then play and win for that faction, you can get considerably higher payout values. So the question then becomes:
A) Do I want to play public matches and get guaranteed ISK I can use on everything?
or
B) Do I want to play FW matches and get a much higher value payout, but only if I win and only use-able on certain items?
And of course there is also PC but that is besides the point. Also with your example you are getting terrible value for your LP.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8896
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Even at 550Isk per LP and tier 10 standings, a win gets you, what, 659LP?
That's 362k Isk; higher than a pub match unless you're in the top two or three, but not really worth the down sides of friendly fire and getting essentially no rewards if you lose.
Oh, and that's only spending the LP on the absolute best value items. If you dip into the middle tier of LP items, suddenly you're looking at 230k isk-equivalent for a win, and heaven forbid you drop to the low tier and end up with 66k worth of items.
Exactly what I'm trying to say. All items need their value brought up towards the top tier in ISK Per LP and then the LP payouts need to be tripled. Some may say that's way too much, but you much remember that you are risking getting really low payouts if you lose.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8910
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 16:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:
-You earn an amount of lp for a win. The amount of lp earned in comparison to the isk to lp ratio should be rather low, but then be much better than a public match once you reach a high standings level. In other words, a win should net you about 150k isk worth of lp at level 0 or level 1 standings, but then should give you 300-500k isk worth of lp at level 10 standings
Needs to be a higher amount of LP once you get to level 10. You have to remember that currently in Public Contracts you can earn over 300K fairly easily win or lose and you don't even need to grind standing up for anything. In Faction Warfare you have to both grind that standing up to Level 10 and then you only get paid well if you win.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8910
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 19:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:There is no point in running FW cause the suits you make out of LP cost way too much and you cant even break even with FW. And there is no ISK-LP ratio cause there is no player market where you could convert it. LP payouts should be 50-60% higher at the base and then aswell increase with your standings. If you cant be self sufficent by running FW then its not worth the time playing it.
There is definitely an ISK-LP ratio, it just varies depending on what you choose to buy with your LP. And the variance is huge, that is what this thread is about.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8912
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 02:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:The dark cloud wrote:There is no point in running FW cause the suits you make out of LP cost way too much and you cant even break even with FW. And there is no ISK-LP ratio cause there is no player market where you could convert it. LP payouts should be 50-60% higher at the base and then aswell increase with your standings. If you cant be self sufficent by running FW then its not worth the time playing it. There is definitely an ISK-LP ratio, it just varies depending on what you choose to buy with your LP. And the variance is huge, that is what this thread is about. But that ratio doesn't matter when you cannot make the exchange of your LP items for ISK. It means nothing discussing the theoretical LP/ISK exchange rate without that capacity.
But if I was going to use that LP to buy the same items I would of bought anyways with ISK, then yes that ISK-LP conversion means a hell of a lot. And I know in your case you won't be playing Gal FW to buy Madrugars, but that is a personal choice you made.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8912
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 03:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:The dark cloud wrote:There is no point in running FW cause the suits you make out of LP cost way too much and you cant even break even with FW. And there is no ISK-LP ratio cause there is no player market where you could convert it. LP payouts should be 50-60% higher at the base and then aswell increase with your standings. If you cant be self sufficent by running FW then its not worth the time playing it. There is definitely an ISK-LP ratio, it just varies depending on what you choose to buy with your LP. And the variance is huge, that is what this thread is about. But that ratio doesn't matter when you cannot make the exchange of your LP items for ISK. It means nothing discussing the theoretical LP/ISK exchange rate without that capacity. But if I was going to use that LP to buy the same items I would of bought anyways with ISK, then yes that ISK-LP conversion means a hell of a lot. And I know in your case you won't be playing Gal FW to buy Madrugars, but that is a personal choice you made. It's not so much a personal choice as our corp won't allow it.... my old afked Federal Maddies are already gone though...... I couldn't sell them so I used em.
But it is your personal choice to be in this corp, that is what I was getting at. Anyways, you get my point that if the stuff in the LP store is the stuff you buy anyways, than that ISK-LP conversion is really important.
Amarr are the good guys
Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8950
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 23:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Still hoping this gets consideration for a future hotfix.
Amarr are the good guys
Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
|
|
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9195
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 20:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I appreciate the hard work that has gone into this. Be very sure that we will study this very carefully.
Thank you for for liking into this. I was actually away from Dust when you posted this, but never too late to say I really appreciate you looking into it.
Amarr are the good guys
Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
|
|
|
| |
|