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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1491
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Posted - 2014.07.25 10:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. Because with the mods as they are, you can dampen far quicker than you can enhance precision, meaning that a calscout will be able to easily beat amarr precision, as 2 enhancers is all they need to beat, as opposed to a possible 4 now.
2. Because scouts stacking health has been a problem since they released them all in 1.8, and now CalScout and AmarrScout don't have to compete with their primary tank modules to maximize their bonus.
3. Caldari hate Gallente, and Gallente dampen. Therefore, Caldari will want to counter their primary enemies' dampening in order to see them anyway. Amarr hate Minmatar, who use speed and aren't known for their dampening. Therefore, they would want to see them from farther away, giving them more time to react to the quick MinScout.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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Faquira Bleuetta
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
408
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Posted - 2014.07.25 10:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:1. Because with the mods as they are, you can dampen far quicker than you can enhance precision, meaning that a calscout will be able to easily beat amarr precision, as 2 enhancers is all they need to beat, as opposed to a possible 4 now.
2. Because scouts stacking health has been a problem since they released them all in 1.8, and now CalScout and AmarrScout don't have to compete with their primary tank modules to maximize their bonus.
3. Caldari hate Gallente, and Gallente dampen. Therefore, Caldari will want to counter their primary enemies' dampening in order to see them anyway. Amarr hate Minmatar, who use speed and aren't known for their dampening. Therefore, they would want to see them from farther away, giving them more time to react to the quick MinScout. amarr scout still sux |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3136
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Posted - 2014.07.25 11:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would prefer that range extenders were moved to high slots and prescision enhancers moved to lows. But the current changes won't wok purely because of the positions of modules.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3667
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Posted - 2014.07.25 11:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Agreed, I as well have made a thread about this but it seems only post that gain massive attention are blessed by a blue tag
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Mejt0
Made in Poland... E-R-A
222
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Posted - 2014.07.25 13:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
We get dampening bonus. Thats way, way better.
As caldari, we will be able to hide from passive scans.
-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-
Markiplier fan.
Hollywood Undead ,rocks.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5739
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Posted - 2014.07.25 15:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
I was thinking the same thing; I don't think amarr are known for Ewar
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
4290
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Posted - 2014.07.25 15:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
If caldari get precision they won't need to use precision mods in the high slots, allowing them to tank more shields...
Without the precision bonus they will actually need to use precision mods, sacrificing tank.
Honestly having a skill bonus to the efficacy of the modules would be best, but that's out of the question according to CCP.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1495
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Posted - 2014.07.25 23:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:If caldari get precision they won't need to use precision mods in the high slots, allowing them to tank more shields...
Without the precision bonus they will actually need to use precision mods, sacrificing tank.
Honestly having a skill bonus to the efficacy of the modules would be best, but that's out of the question according to CCP. Not true. A galscout will easily get under their scans with no dampeners. In order to scan the galscout, they will have to fit a precision enhancer. Should the galscout fit a dampener, the calscout would have to fit another precision enhancer. So on and so forth, until the galscout beat out the calscout with 4 dampeners to 4 enhancers. This makes sense, as the suits sacrifice more and more tank in order tofind/avoid its opponent and racial enemy.
With the amarr scout, all a calscout needs is 2 dampeners max to get under everybody ever. Nothing will find them, leaving them with 2 empty lows to stack health/kincats/whatever. So they could have 500 armor easy and be utterly unseen by even the suit dedicated to seeing them. Which brings us back to where we were before the galscout nerf.
Thus, Caldari should have precision, because if the calscout sacrifices all of its highs to find you, then the galscout should have to sacrifice all of its tank modules in order to avoid it.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3676
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Posted - 2014.07.25 23:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I was thinking the same thing; I don't think amarr are known for Ewar We're known for sapping the energy from stuff
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4589
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Posted - 2014.07.25 23:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
It works the opposite way as well. One could see that if Caldari got precision, they'd be granted 1+ High slot and then some, thus giving them more room to tank/excuse to tank. At the same time they could have fits that beat out any other suits' precision. It's a two sided power coin that the Caldari has.
The problem with Caldari is that shields don't inhibit movement speed so they are the ultimate scout tank. Giving the Caldari an extra high slot can make room for shield mods.
Also, if a Caldari stacks 4 CMP Precision thus forcing a Gallente to use 4 CMP damps, the Caldari has two low slots that it can armor tank with thus achieve a higher HP than the Gal Spook who has two high slots left.
Right now the only thing that can scan a Caldari scout is another Caldari scout. So it gives all the more reason to be a Caldari scout, so you can scan the Caldari scouts, who are the biggest scout threats. And because you are not alerted when you are passively scanned, it gives more advantage to be scanned and scan back then to not scan and not be scanned back. Gives less reason to be any other scout because of the 3 advantages that are held in the Cal scout.
I'm not saying that Caldari can't have precision, but I'm saying high slots are a powerful asset when combined with a precision bonus.
Dampening on the other hand offers no advantage. If you can't scan back while being dampened you are just as blind as they are to you thus it's a tie. Dampening makes you not-disadvantaged.
Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4589
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Posted - 2014.07.25 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
DPLAK
Here's a solution if Caldari wanted to keep their bonus. Decrease Scout precision to 1 point above profile. Decrease Caldari precision bonus to 3%. There we go.
Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2636
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Posted - 2014.07.25 23:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:If caldari get precision they won't need to use precision mods in the high slots, allowing them to tank more shields...
Without the precision bonus they will actually need to use precision mods, sacrificing tank.
Honestly having a skill bonus to the efficacy of the modules would be best, but that's out of the question according to CCP. Not true. A galscout will easily get under their scans with no dampeners. In order to scan the galscout, they will have to fit a precision enhancer. Should the galscout fit a dampener, the calscout would have to fit another precision enhancer. So on and so forth, until the galscout beat out the calscout with 4 dampeners to 4 enhancers. This makes sense, as the suits sacrifice more and more tank in order tofind/avoid its opponent and racial enemy. With the amarr scout, all a calscout needs is 2 dampeners max to get under everybody ever. Nothing will find them, leaving them with 2 empty lows to stack health/kincats/whatever. So they could have 500 armor easy and be utterly unseen by even the suit dedicated to seeing them. Which brings us back to where we were before the galscout nerf. Thus, Caldari should have precision, because if the calscout sacrifices all of its highs to find you, then the galscout should have to sacrifice all of its tank modules in order to avoid it. 2 Damps and a cloak or 3 Damps on a Gal will get you under everything.
Tanker/Logi
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D4GG3R
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
418
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Posted - 2014.07.25 23:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Faquira Bleuetta wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:1. Because with the mods as they are, you can dampen far quicker than you can enhance precision, meaning that a calscout will be able to easily beat amarr precision, as 2 enhancers is all they need to beat, as opposed to a possible 4 now.
2. Because scouts stacking health has been a problem since they released them all in 1.8, and now CalScout and AmarrScout don't have to compete with their primary tank modules to maximize their bonus.
3. Caldari hate Gallente, and Gallente dampen. Therefore, Caldari will want to counter their primary enemies' dampening in order to see them anyway. Amarr hate Minmatar, who use speed and aren't known for their dampening. Therefore, they would want to see them from farther away, giving them more time to react to the quick MinScout. amarr scout still sux
I smash faces with the amarr scout, in PC:)
I'm pretty plain.
I watch anime for the boobs
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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1495
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Posted - 2014.07.26 00:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:It works the opposite way as well. One could see that if Caldari got precision, they'd be granted 1+ High slot and then some, thus giving them more room to tank/excuse to tank. At the same time they could have fits that beat out any other suits' precision. It's a two sided power coin that the Caldari has.
The problem with Caldari is that shields don't inhibit movement speed so they are the ultimate scout tank. Giving the Caldari an extra high slot can make room for shield mods.
Also, if a Caldari stacks 4 CMP Precision thus forcing a Gallente to use 4 CMP damps, the Caldari has two low slots that it can armor tank with thus achieve a higher HP than the Gal Spook who has two high slots left.
Right now the only thing that can scan a Caldari scout is another Caldari scout. So it gives all the more reason to be a Caldari scout, so you can scan the Caldari scouts, who are the biggest scout threats. And because you are not alerted when you are passively scanned, it gives more advantage to be scanned and scan back then to not scan and not be scanned back. Gives less reason to be any other scout because of the 3 advantages that are held in the Cal scout.
I'm not saying that Caldari can't have precision, but I'm saying high slots are a powerful asset when combined with a precision bonus.
Dampening on the other hand offers no advantage. If you can't scan back while being dampened you are just as blind as they are to you thus it's a tie. Dampening makes you not-disadvantaged. One precision enhancer is enough for any scout to scan any suit without a dampener, assuming max skills for both players. After that, its about scanning galscouts. And again, galscouts only need to fit 2 dampeners to be invisible to everyone, because of the limited high slots on the amarr scout. Plus, as stated before, Caldari would do everything in their power to counter their hated enemy the Gallente. A calscout should only be invisible to everyone if he fits a full rack of dampeners, and then he will be paper-thin, which is balanced. If precision goes to the amarr, he need only fit 2 to be invisible to all, meaning he has a 800hp ceiling if he spent the rest of the slots on tank.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4590
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Posted - 2014.07.26 00:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote: One precision enhancer is enough for any scout to scan any suit without a dampener, assuming max skills for both players. After that, its about scanning galscouts. And again, galscouts only need to fit 2 dampeners to be invisible to everyone, because of the limited high slots on the amarr scout. Plus, as stated before, Caldari would do everything in their power to counter their hated enemy the Gallente. A galscout should only be invisible to everyone if he fits a full rack of dampeners, and then he will be paper-thin, which is balanced. If precision goes to the amarr, he need only fit 2 to be invisible to all, meaning he has a 800hp ceiling if he spent the rest of the slots on tank.
Amarr needs three dampeners to be invisible to itself while Caldari and Gallente only need two. Unless you count cloak but then still they'd need to fit precision amps to make use of their bonus except against the Minnow scout.
Plus as stated before, Caldari are about range.
You are missing the point of my argument. My point is that if the Amarr get range it could be seen as giving them an extra low slot thus more room to tank. Your argument works backwards as well thus counters itself thus isn't much of an argument.
If you give Caldari precision you give them room for shield tanking. If you don't give Caldari precision you give them excuse to tank.
You see the issue here? It's an impass argument.
Besides you realize that the Charlie implementations are a jury rigging until we get module efficacy bonuses right?
Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1496
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Posted - 2014.07.26 00:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote: One precision enhancer is enough for any scout to scan any suit without a dampener, assuming max skills for both players. After that, its about scanning galscouts. And again, galscouts only need to fit 2 dampeners to be invisible to everyone, because of the limited high slots on the amarr scout. Plus, as stated before, Caldari would do everything in their power to counter their hated enemy the Gallente. A galscout should only be invisible to everyone if he fits a full rack of dampeners, and then he will be paper-thin, which is balanced. If precision goes to the amarr, he need only fit 2 to be invisible to all, meaning he has a 800hp ceiling if he spent the rest of the slots on tank.
Amarr needs three dampeners to be invisible to itself while Caldari and Gallente only need two. Unless you count cloak but then still they'd need to fit precision amps to make use of their bonus except against the Minnow scout. Plus as stated before, Caldari are about range. You are missing the point of my argument. My point is that if the Amarr get range it could be seen as giving them an extra low slot thus more room to tank. Your argument works backwards as well thus counters itself thus isn't much of an argument. If you give Caldari precision you give them room for shield tanking. If you don't give Caldari precision you give them excuse to tank. You see the issue here? It's an impass argument. Besides you realize that the Charlie implementations are a jury rigging until we get module efficacy bonuses right? Caldari are about countering their hated enemy, the Gallente. And as stated, Amarr would want to see MinScouts coming from farther away, giving them time to react since MinScouts are so fast.
Giving Caldari a free low slot is the same as giving them a free high slot. If anything, a free low slot is worth more, because there are far more modules you can put there armor being one of them, going ~1.75x more health than an extender. We want Caldari to fit for precision, sacrificing their tank to do so. Then we should give them a bonus for precision, so that they can maximize their bonus. As it stands, maximizing range gives them 4 high slots to tank with, since as said previously, it will take them 2 enhancers to find a calscout with no dampening on it. Giving them precision means each enhancer is worth more.
And again, it will be easy for galscouts to hit the Dampening ceiling if the most they have to combat is 2 enhancers and a bonus. This leads to another wave of calscout bricktanking.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1496
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Posted - 2014.07.26 00:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
For the record, I'm typing this on my phone and it keeps changing galscout to calscout for whatever reason, so forgive any errors in talking about the suits.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
1685
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Posted - 2014.07.26 04:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Precision is the only thing that makes an amarr scout worth it.
Next patch, Cal and Am scouts will be balanced, Gal scouts will be OP and minjas will be...well....minjas.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4600
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Posted - 2014.07.26 05:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
I believe that these are experimental tie overs for legion.
CCP wants to test the waters with radical changes while they work on getting us the module efficacy bonus which is ten times better fix for scout.
It's just a madscientist project for a hotfix.
Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
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