DUST Search - Why CalScouts should have precision, and Amarr range

Bojo The Mighty wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

One precision enhancer is enough for any scout to scan any suit without a dampener, assuming max skills for both players. After that, its about scanning galscouts. And again, galscouts only need to fit 2 dampeners to be invisible to everyone, because of the limited high slots on the amarr scout. Plus, as stated before, Caldari would do everything in their power to counter their hated enemy the Gallente. A galscout should only be invisible to everyone if he fits a full rack of dampeners, and then he will be paper-thin, which is balanced. If precision goes to the amarr, he need only fit 2 to be invisible to all, meaning he has a 800hp ceiling if he spent the rest of the slots on tank.

Amarr needs three dampeners to be invisible to itself while Caldari and Gallente only need two. Unless you count cloak but then still they'd need to fit precision amps to make use of their bonus except against the Minnow scout.

Plus as stated before, Caldari are about range.

You are missing the point of my argument. My point is that if the Amarr get range it could be seen as giving them an extra low slot thus more room to tank. Your argument works backwards as well thus counters itself thus isn't much of an argument.

If you give Caldari precision you give them room for shield tanking.
If you don't give Caldari precision you give them excuse to tank.

You see the issue here? It's an impass argument.

Besides you realize that the Charlie implementations are a jury rigging until we get module efficacy bonuses right?


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Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1491	Posted - 2014.07.25 10:16:00 - [1] - Quote 1. Because with the mods as they are, you can dampen far quicker than you can enhance precision, meaning that a calscout will be able to easily beat amarr precision, as 2 enhancers is all they need to beat, as opposed to a possible 4 now. 2. Because scouts stacking health has been a problem since they released them all in 1.8, and now CalScout and AmarrScout don't have to compete with their primary tank modules to maximize their bonus. 3. Caldari hate Gallente, and Gallente dampen. Therefore, Caldari will want to counter their primary enemies' dampening in order to see them anyway. Amarr hate Minmatar, who use speed and aren't known for their dampening. Therefore, they would want to see them from farther away, giving them more time to react to the quick MinScout. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1495	Posted - 2014.07.25 23:16:00 - [2] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: If caldari get precision they won't need to use precision mods in the high slots, allowing them to tank more shields... Without the precision bonus they will actually need to use precision mods, sacrificing tank. Honestly having a skill bonus to the efficacy of the modules would be best, but that's out of the question according to CCP. Not true. A galscout will easily get under their scans with no dampeners. In order to scan the galscout, they will have to fit a precision enhancer. Should the galscout fit a dampener, the calscout would have to fit another precision enhancer. So on and so forth, until the galscout beat out the calscout with 4 dampeners to 4 enhancers. This makes sense, as the suits sacrifice more and more tank in order tofind/avoid its opponent and racial enemy. With the amarr scout, all a calscout needs is 2 dampeners max to get under everybody ever. Nothing will find them, leaving them with 2 empty lows to stack health/kincats/whatever. So they could have 500 armor easy and be utterly unseen by even the suit dedicated to seeing them. Which brings us back to where we were before the galscout nerf. Thus, Caldari should have precision, because if the calscout sacrifices all of its highs to find you, then the galscout should have to sacrifice all of its tank modules in order to avoid it. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1495	Posted - 2014.07.26 00:14:00 - [3] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: It works the opposite way as well. One could see that if Caldari got precision, they'd be granted 1+ High slot and then some, thus giving them more room to tank/excuse to tank. At the same time they could have fits that beat out any other suits' precision. It's a two sided power coin that the Caldari has. The problem with Caldari is that shields don't inhibit movement speed so they are the ultimate scout tank. Giving the Caldari an extra high slot can make room for shield mods. Also, if a Caldari stacks 4 CMP Precision thus forcing a Gallente to use 4 CMP damps, the Caldari has two low slots that it can armor tank with thus achieve a higher HP than the Gal Spook who has two high slots left. Right now the only thing that can scan a Caldari scout is another Caldari scout. So it gives all the more reason to be a Caldari scout, so you can scan the Caldari scouts, who are the biggest scout threats. And because you are not alerted when you are passively scanned, it gives more advantage to be scanned and scan back then to not scan and not be scanned back. Gives less reason to be any other scout because of the 3 advantages that are held in the Cal scout. I'm not saying that Caldari can't have precision, but I'm saying high slots are a powerful asset when combined with a precision bonus. Dampening on the other hand offers no advantage. If you can't scan back while being dampened you are just as blind as they are to you thus it's a tie. Dampening makes you not-disadvantaged. One precision enhancer is enough for any scout to scan any suit without a dampener, assuming max skills for both players. After that, its about scanning galscouts. And again, galscouts only need to fit 2 dampeners to be invisible to everyone, because of the limited high slots on the amarr scout. Plus, as stated before, Caldari would do everything in their power to counter their hated enemy the Gallente. A calscout should only be invisible to everyone if he fits a full rack of dampeners, and then he will be paper-thin, which is balanced. If precision goes to the amarr, he need only fit 2 to be invisible to all, meaning he has a 800hp ceiling if he spent the rest of the slots on tank. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1496	Posted - 2014.07.26 00:49:00 - [4] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: One precision enhancer is enough for any scout to scan any suit without a dampener, assuming max skills for both players. After that, its about scanning galscouts. And again, galscouts only need to fit 2 dampeners to be invisible to everyone, because of the limited high slots on the amarr scout. Plus, as stated before, Caldari would do everything in their power to counter their hated enemy the Gallente. A galscout should only be invisible to everyone if he fits a full rack of dampeners, and then he will be paper-thin, which is balanced. If precision goes to the amarr, he need only fit 2 to be invisible to all, meaning he has a 800hp ceiling if he spent the rest of the slots on tank. Amarr needs three dampeners to be invisible to itself while Caldari and Gallente only need two. Unless you count cloak but then still they'd need to fit precision amps to make use of their bonus except against the Minnow scout. Plus as stated before, Caldari are about range. You are missing the point of my argument. My point is that if the Amarr get range it could be seen as giving them an extra low slot thus more room to tank. Your argument works backwards as well thus counters itself thus isn't much of an argument. If you give Caldari precision you give them room for shield tanking. If you don't give Caldari precision you give them excuse to tank. You see the issue here? It's an impass argument. Besides you realize that the Charlie implementations are a jury rigging until we get module efficacy bonuses right? Caldari are about countering their hated enemy, the Gallente. And as stated, Amarr would want to see MinScouts coming from farther away, giving them time to react since MinScouts are so fast. Giving Caldari a free low slot is the same as giving them a free high slot. If anything, a free low slot is worth more, because there are far more modules you can put there armor being one of them, going ~1.75x more health than an extender. We want Caldari to fit for precision, sacrificing their tank to do so. Then we should give them a bonus for precision, so that they can maximize their bonus. As it stands, maximizing range gives them 4 high slots to tank with, since as said previously, it will take them 2 enhancers to find a calscout with no dampening on it. Giving them precision means each enhancer is worth more. And again, it will be easy for galscouts to hit the Dampening ceiling if the most they have to combat is 2 enhancers and a bonus. This leads to another wave of calscout bricktanking. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1496	Posted - 2014.07.26 00:51:00 - [5] - Quote For the record, I'm typing this on my phone and it keeps changing galscout to calscout for whatever reason, so forgive any errors in talking about the suits. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.