DUST Search - Shields

Bojo The Mighty wrote:

I've noticed disturbing issues with the nature of shields.

For one, on heavies, they aren't really all that useful. I find that more Caldari heavies attempt to shield regen tank over actual shield tanking. Secondly, on scouts, they are overtly powerful. A caldari scout with 4 extenders suffers no "scoutly penatly" as there is no movement hindrance on shields and thus shield tanking is a scout issue. So we have heavies who are regen tanking and scouts who are HP tanking.

That doesn't scratch right you know?

On medium frames they are just right so we should find a middle ground where they suffer not.

Making shields % based:
Pros: Really dissuades scouts from using them and persuades heavies to use them
Con: Then by comparison armor gives more % to scouts and less % to heavies

Giving a Profile Penalty:
For instance, what if we did this: + (100-Profile/2)
So a heavy with profile 65 would be raised to 76 profile and a scout with profile 30 would be raised to 40.5. Seeing as how scanners are already well below 65 heavies wouldn't see a difference (until they hit 150 Shocked

) in being scanned while a shield extender on a scout would make them much easier to be scanned.
Con: medium frames Sad

In the end, we need a system where putting lesser shields on a scout, like basic, is OK but enhanced becomes risky and complex becomes dangerous. Where scout attributes are put at risk by stacking. Here & there tanking is perfectly fine on a scout. A ferroscale or reactive should not punish a scout nor should 33 shield HP. But I'm talking about punishing quantity tanking on scouts.

Help me out here

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Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4514	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:41:00 - [1] - Quote I've noticed disturbing issues with the nature of shields. For one, on heavies, they aren't really all that useful. I find that more Caldari heavies attempt to shield regen tank over actual shield tanking. Secondly, on scouts, they are overtly powerful. A caldari scout with 4 extenders suffers no "scoutly penatly" as there is no movement hindrance on shields and thus shield tanking is a scout issue. So we have heavies who are regen tanking and scouts who are HP tanking. That doesn't scratch right you know? On medium frames they are just right so we should find a middle ground where they suffer not. Making shields % based: Pros: Really dissuades scouts from using them and persuades heavies to use them Con: Then by comparison armor gives more % to scouts and less % to heavies Giving a Profile Penalty: For instance, what if we did this: + (100-Profile/2) So a heavy with profile 65 would be raised to 76 profile and a scout with profile 30 would be raised to 40.5. Seeing as how scanners are already well below 65 heavies wouldn't see a difference (until they hit 150 ) in being scanned while a shield extender on a scout would make them much easier to be scanned. Con: medium frames In the end, we need a system where putting lesser shields on a scout, like basic, is OK but enhanced becomes risky and complex becomes dangerous. Where scout attributes are put at risk by stacking. Here & there tanking is perfectly fine on a scout. A ferroscale or reactive should not punish a scout nor should 33 shield HP. But I'm talking about punishing quantity tanking on scouts. Help me out here Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1490	Posted - 2014.07.24 23:56:00 - [2] - Quote Lower pg/CPU on light frames. Buff pg/CPU on heavy frames. Introduce light and heavy tank modules for dropsuits. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4535	Posted - 2014.07.25 01:02:00 - [3] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lower pg/CPU on light frames. Buff pg/CPU on heavy frames. Introduce light and heavy tank modules for dropsuits. Rattati is working towards CPU/PG penalties on plates/ maybe shields Lowering CPU/PG on light frames doesn't solve anything, it would make armor tanking an epidemic, still because armor mods are very low CPU/PG and heavies have enough CPU/PG Light & heavy could work if you lock heavy out of scouts instead of just nerfing CPU/PG Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 490	Posted - 2014.07.25 06:06:00 - [4] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lower pg/CPU on light frames. Buff pg/CPU on heavy frames. Introduce light and heavy tank modules for dropsuits. Rattati is working towards CPU/PG penalties on plates/ maybe shields Lowering CPU/PG on light frames doesn't solve anything, it would make armor tanking an epidemic, still because armor mods are very low CPU/PG and heavies have enough CPU/PG Light & heavy could work if you lock heavy out of scouts instead of just nerfing CPU/PG Make 3 classes of hp modules. One class for lights, mediums, and heavies respectively. Then you can balance them separately
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1491	Posted - 2014.07.25 10:04:00 - [5] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lower pg/CPU on light frames. Buff pg/CPU on heavy frames. Introduce light and heavy tank modules for dropsuits. Rattati is working towards CPU/PG penalties on plates/ maybe shields Lowering CPU/PG on light frames doesn't solve anything, it would make armor tanking an epidemic, still because armor mods are very low CPU/PG and heavies have enough CPU/PG Light & heavy could work if you lock heavy out of scouts instead of just nerfing CPU/PG Locking mods goes against new eden save for very special cases (bastion, siege, triage, etc.) There are tons of ships that fit things a size too large for them (cruisers fitting a battleship afterburner FOR LUDICROUS SPEED) so the same should apply to dust. As it stands, we can buff plates pg/CPU usage to make sure scouts can only fit it if they use fitting mods. Then scouts will prefer reactive/ferroscale plates for tanking. Then introduce a really high pg/CPU plate that only heavies can fit properly. A medium can fit one, but only by using fitting mods. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4559	Posted - 2014.07.25 17:08:00 - [6] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lower pg/CPU on light frames. Buff pg/CPU on heavy frames. Introduce light and heavy tank modules for dropsuits. Rattati is working towards CPU/PG penalties on plates/ maybe shields Lowering CPU/PG on light frames doesn't solve anything, it would make armor tanking an epidemic, still because armor mods are very low CPU/PG and heavies have enough CPU/PG Light & heavy could work if you lock heavy out of scouts instead of just nerfing CPU/PG Make 3 classes of hp modules. One class for lights, mediums, and heavies respectively. Then you can balance them separately by giving scouts only enough fitting resources to fit scout sized hp mods That's great but how do you nerf CPU/PG without nerfing CPU/PG Uplinks, Kincats, Codebreakers,Remotes, these are scout friendly gear that uses quite a bit of CPU/PG. Doing a straight cut of CPU/PG to scouts as is would just hurt the scouts who don't tank, much like the Alpha changes. Rattati proposed fitting penalty, where tank mods just have more CPU/PG on scouts than any other suit. I like it but only if it does not apply to reactives, ferros, and basic/mlt shields. In fact I think it's wonderful but persuading CCP to make the discrimination is the effort that lies within. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 248	Posted - 2014.07.25 18:24:00 - [7] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I've noticed disturbing issues with the nature of shields. For one, on heavies, they aren't really all that useful. I find that more Caldari heavies attempt to shield regen tank over actual shield tanking. Secondly, on scouts, they are overtly powerful. A caldari scout with 4 extenders suffers no "scoutly penatly" as there is no movement hindrance on shields and thus shield tanking is a scout issue. So we have heavies who are regen tanking and scouts who are HP tanking. That doesn't scratch right you know? On medium frames they are just right so we should find a middle ground where they suffer not. Making shields % based: Pros: Really dissuades scouts from using them and persuades heavies to use them Con: Then by comparison armor gives more % to scouts and less % to heavies Giving a Profile Penalty: For instance, what if we did this: + (100-Profile/2) So a heavy with profile 65 would be raised to 76 profile and a scout with profile 30 would be raised to 40.5. Seeing as how scanners are already well below 65 heavies wouldn't see a difference (until they hit 150 ) in being scanned while a shield extender on a scout would make them much easier to be scanned. Con: medium frames In the end, we need a system where putting lesser shields on a scout, like basic, is OK but enhanced becomes risky and complex becomes dangerous. Where scout attributes are put at risk by stacking. Here & there tanking is perfectly fine on a scout. A ferroscale or reactive should not punish a scout nor should 33 shield HP. But I'm talking about punishing quantity tanking on scouts. Help me out here Shields are meant to be lower in ehp but higher in regeneration then armor. This means Caldari heavies are designed to bounce in and out of combat like the rest of the caldari line up, because this is what shield tanking is about. Hope that clears things up for you. Shield =/= Armor its not about outlasting the other guy, it's about engaging and disengaging at the correct time. -Signed a Caldari Soldier.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1677	Posted - 2014.07.25 20:43:00 - [8] - Quote Id like "Heavy Extenders" with a profile penalty, but the current extenders are balanced with ferroscales IMHO. Shields do not need a nerf on scouts or heavies. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand


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