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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2485
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Posted - 2014.07.24 20:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
*sigh* We've been over this before you went totally manic.
I agree Logis need a buff, but you want them to be exactly the same in terms of defensive capabilities as Assaults, and that's where we disagree.
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2485
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Posted - 2014.07.24 20:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:*sigh* We've been over this before you went totally manic.
I agree Logis need a buff, but you want them to be exactly the same in terms of defensive capabilities as Assaults, and that's where we disagree. Considering a Pro logistics with equipment can be nearly 2-3 x the investment sp and isk wise as an assault why shouldn't logistics get defense?
First of all you cant balance against SP cost, that just rewards people who have been playing longer solely because of SP investment. Now you CAN balance SP cost of skills to help compensate, making equipment easier to skill into, but giving someone a better dropsuit because their equipment is hard to train? No. Then they'll just not train the equipment and take advantage of the better suit.
As for ISK cost, the price of equipment could probably use a drop to help compensate. Also the fact that Logistics need to equip so many modules to reach reasonable defensive capabilities adds to the increased ISK Cost. In my other proposal which you threw a tantrum about, lowered the slot count on the Logis to make it cheaper to run, but raised the base stats to compensate for the loss of module slots.
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2486
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Posted - 2014.07.24 20:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Logi's should get their buff but it should not be to survivability or fitting power. Logi need a role bonus change so that every Logi can use the repair tool or shield transporter with increased efficiency and range.
A logi does not need massive amounts of EHP to fulfil its role, I've been one and its overkill. However it does need a reinforcement of its role to ensure players are incentivised to carry out the role role.
Role Bonus: 3-5% increase to Armour and Shield repair rates per level
3-5% increase to Repair Tool Range per level
Racial Suit Bonus:
Amarr- Uplinks Bonus as currently held
Caldari- Increased Nanite Clusters (Need Nanohive that restores shields)
Gallente- Active Scanners Bonus
Minmatar- ?*
* Minmatar is a tough one sinces its bonus originally lent to the Repair tool, a piece of equipment I do not believe should be solely monopolised by one racial group since it applies to all racial groups and their logistical needs. That however leaves the Min Logi in a bind. I would be happy to take suggestions for skills and or suggestions for future equipment items?
Perhaps Min Logi could use Target Painters which would lock and high light individual players or vehicles to the team or increase damage done to the target.
Very Similar to something I suggested yesterday, though I think the thread has since been buried haha.
Regardless in that proposal I have Minmatar logi a bonus to carry capacity as well as damage of remote explosives and proximity mines, making them more of a Indirect Point-Defense suit, capable of laying minefields against vehicles or locking down choke points with explosives.
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2486
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 21:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meee One wrote:
Assaults would still have.
-eHP
-everything else better than basics
-to sacrifice nothing
logistics would have
-speed and regen to make up for their eHP being SO DAMNED CLOSE to scouts
-lower eHP
- 1 weapon
-bigger hitbox
-better e-war
This would centralize a theme,support gets speed and regen (logistics and scouts),killers get eHP (everyone else).
Except what I suggested would increase Logi Speed, HP, and Regen but alright...
But since you're so keen on taking a dump on everyone that doesn't completely agree with you 100%, how about you lay out exactly what you would do if you were in charge. Bonuses, HP values, the works. I'm curious to see what you come up with.
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2486
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Posted - 2014.07.24 21:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meee One wrote:True Adamance wrote:Not really the opposite...... more like roughly similar with a different focus...... No not the same,logistics shouldn't be killing things. logistics should be able to survive easier though. Maybe a damage reduction of x%,but at a cost. x% damage ouput reduction. It gets more durable,but it can't do as much damage. This with a speed and regen buff would make logistics more defensive.
You do realized that if you have 10% more survivability than the guy doing 10% more damage than you, you die at the same time right? So how does that exactly like Assaults better than a Logi in a 1 on 1 fight?
Logistics can do 100 DPS and has 110HP
Assault can do 110 DPS and have 100HP
They both die in 1 second if they're shooting each other at the same time. So how exactly does that make an Assault better at killing if the Logi can kill him just as fast as he kills the Logi?
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2487
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Posted - 2014.07.24 21:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Entirely legitimate suggestions..... Min Logi = Repping Mad Bomber?
I suppose the Target Painter was a bit far fetched and falls into EWAR/ Scout not Logi....
Trust me I would LOVE the idea of Target Painters, but we do need to be realistic in terms of Dust's development capabilities.
As for the remote idea, it hammers in that concept of 'Indirect Combat Support' that the Logi's need to have. Battlefield control is a very good thing to have and giving the Minmatar Logi the ability to rep and support his team but also make use of remotes to set up traps and minefields to defend his team against the enemy is a fantastic angle on the support role. Granted I'd like some tweaks to remotes to do away with so much Ultimate Frisbee 514.
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2490
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Posted - 2014.07.24 23:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:I personally think that medium suits should have higher regen that light suits since light suits have the advantage of a smaller hitbox, stealth, scanning and speed built right into the suit.
Logi's getting a little less than assaults since assaults are sort of supposed to be getting damaged a lot more. But I could see the Logi coming along to the regen ride if the assault ever goes down that path. Beyond that though, the Logi's aren't really hurting for a buff as much as other things are.
Regen should be a theme for all medium frames. Its easy to say "Oh Assaults should have eHP and Logistics should have regen" but if you have an Assault who's main tank is his eHP, well then you get a really skinny Commando with a sidearm.
Logistics need to be viable in a fight, but not superior in a head on encounter with an attacker class. Assaults on the other hand need a little bit more since they DO need to survive a head on encounter, not just crossfire.
As I've said before I'd lower the number of slots a Logi has to decrease the sheer ISK cost to run the suit, bring up the base stats so compensate for the loss of the additional modules, lower base PG/CPU due the lesser fitting needs, and increase its PG/CPU reduction for equipment to compensate for the lesser resources.
What you get is a Logistics suit that performs similar to an Assault, with the Assault having slightly better defenses for head on engagements, and a fitting setup that encourages the use of equipment on Logistics.
So what does the Assault 'give up'? The ability to fit 2-3 additional equipment in exchange for a sidearm and slightly better defense and superior offense.
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Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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