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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10913	Posted - 2014.07.25 05:11:00 - [1] - Quote Why are Swarm Launchers being nerfed, while Dropships being buffed at the same time? Unless of course, they're being nerfed in preparation of a Damage Modifier buff? And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10916	Posted - 2014.07.25 05:52:00 - [2] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: Basically you can run a Basic swarm launcher with lv5 proficiency and do almost as well as a proto swarm launcher with 0 efficiency, basically making it so that you can run the much cheaper basic variant, and with high skills, can perform very well anti-AV with minimum ISK loss This is already possible with every other weapon in DUST, and even possible for Small Turrets given you train the Assault Dropship Operation to Level V. This is a non-issue. CHANCEtheChAn wrote: I think armor reps are gonna have to go back up to near Pre-Alpha/Bravo levels for Armor vehicles to be effective again after this... The previous Armor Repairers made them immune to all Infantry weapons than the IAFG, and even then if the pilot evaded even a single shot the pilot would be unscathed. This was broken, and should not return. Not to mention that it made Shield Tanks worthless, as it's main strength was supposed to it's regen capabilities, but those were being out-classed by the 'Triple Rep' Madrugar And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10928	Posted - 2014.07.25 18:07:00 - [3] - Quote I fail to see how Swarm Launchers were overpowered, even with the Matari Commando. Since Proficiency Skills don't effect Anti-Shield Damage, the highest amount of damage against shields your volleys could reach is 1277HP. And to do that, you would need to Stack 2 Complex Damage Modifiers, which in turn removes any and all defenses your Dropsuit has, as your 'tank' came from your dual High-Slots. Assuming a Pilot plays defensively and runs Shield Hardener (like they should), that would lower the Volley to 776HP, making the TTK against Shielded Vehicles: Python = 4 Volleys (7.5s) Myron = 4 Volleys (7.5s) Gunnlogi = 6 Volleys (9.6s) This is already extremely generous given the amount of time vehicles have to evade a Swarm Launcher's lock range. With that in mind, I don't see why Swarm Launchers needed a nerf, or why Dropships needed a buff. Let alone both at the same time. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10986	Posted - 2014.07.27 23:05:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I have a question for those saying it is a buff or a nerf. If a python, the best build you can imagine, was sat landed with no pilot. How many militia swarm vollys would it take to kill it? how about proto swarms? assume bothe swarmers have no swarm skills, just the weapon damage? "Best Build" isn't really accurate as any pilot worth their salt should have multiple fittings for different engagements, so in my theory I'm going to use the best build which counters Swarm Launchers (or at least, what will be the best build). With this fitting: MLT Swarm Launcher: 6 Volleys (21.9s) PRO Swarm Launcher: 5 Volleys (15.3s) Considering how (without an Afterburner) a Python can evade a SL's lock range in 2.3s, in-order to actually kill a competent Python pilot with this fitting, you'd need: 10 Players with MLT Swarm Launchers 7 Players with PRO Swarm Launchers I understand that Swarms shouldn't be too effective against Shielded Vehicles, but does this seem a bit off (or broken) to anyone? And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10991	Posted - 2014.07.27 23:48:00 - [5] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Atiim wrote: PRO Swarm Launcher: 5 Volleys (15.3s) 1. Does your math above account for the python's shield recovery during swarmer reload? 2. Looking at your fit ... would our "optimized v swarm" python be better off with a shield hardener? No, I didn't factor in anything besides Damage and Reload Speed,Though you do raise an interesting question. I'll run some calculations and get back to you in a moment. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11030	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:35:00 - [6] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: I can tell if a weapon is protoype just by looking at it. I cannot tell the difference between ADV and STD. Considering how the 3rd Person Model for the weapons all have the same color, I'm willing to bet that this is a lie. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11032	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:45:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Nah bro its like I can tell what tier of Small Turrets a player is using just by sniffing them.... Most 20GJ Turrets are either on LAVs (in which case they're typically moving too fast to see the tier), or they are on an ADS, in which the former applies as well (even more-so considering how the area where the ADS' turret is very small and hard to spot). Though what do you mean by "sniffing" them. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11032	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:46:00 - [8] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Same crap again. Pilots cry they can't stay in an area all day so you give them more HP and nerf swarms again. Ah yes, because getting hit and being unable to aim is fair, getting e shotted by a forge is fair, we have to drop lowish to see people....breach forge is just stupid vs dropships... Considering how your evasion time is only (at most) 1s longer than that FG's charge time, yes it's very fair. Not sure why you believe you should have both High HP, DPS, RoF, and M/S. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11033	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:50:00 - [9] - Quote Since there hasn't been any statement regarding this, may we know the rationale behind the Dropship Buff-¦ and SL nerf? And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11033	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:54:00 - [10] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: While heavies get dps, rof, ehp, and speed with lav... That is another problem within itself. JRleo jr wrote: Getting 3 shotted is op, it's not that hard to aim 3 hits, no python has ever killed me while forging, which isn't fair, as he must flee immediately or die....and if 2 people use a forge and don't suck, you have a 90% mortality rate. 2v1 Engagements are null when discussing balance, and from my experience with piloting Pythons the first and second shots may connect (if the FGer is good), but with my maneuvering (and common sense) the 3rd will never connect. If getting 3HK'd is OP, then the Small Missile & 20GJ Railgun Turrets need a serious nerf. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND

Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11036	Posted - 2014.07.29 03:56:00 - [11] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Infantry costs less, and is harder to get to than a big ass ship in the sky. Not after Hotfix Charlie reduces the ADS' price. Though ISK/AUR/SP/LP are not valid arguments when engaging in balance discussions. JRleo jr wrote: And a python should win 1v1 a infantry av from a realistic view. From a realistic view, a Python being hit from a single Swarm volley should be instantly killed without the ability to 'bail', and a Forge Gun (aka kinetic slug powered by a capacitor traveling at 1200m/s) should cause the Python to vaporize[/i] JRleo jr wrote: Big ship that has its main tank that resists the av people use, or an infantry with a handheld gun...really I always wondered... Your comparison is incomplete, it should be: Big ship with: Superior DPS Superior HP Superior Movement Speed Superior Evasion Capabilities Superior Ammunition Capacity Superior Kills per Ammunition Capacity Superior Anti-infantry Capabilities Superior Anti-Vehicle Capabilities Superior Movement Capabilities Superior TTK or Infantry with Handheld gun -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11037	Posted - 2014.07.29 04:46:00 - [12] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Yet an infantry forger will always win 1v1 assuming it's not mlt. If you get killed by AV, it's because you made the decision to remain in the area as opposed to evading. That is in no way a problem. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11055	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:39:00 - [13] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Stile451 wrote: If ADS were balanced based on PC they would never be destroyed in pub matches. 1. Who cares about pubs 2. That just means they are underpowered in an competitive environment then, which it shouldn't be, it shoukd kinda be balanced around people who have an iq over 2. 1.) 99% of the DUST 514 community. 2.) Balance in general implies efficiency at a 1:1 ratio, which is indeed possible in both game-modes. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11055	Posted - 2014.07.29 17:48:00 - [14] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: If that's the case, why does every python I face with my forge never win? This is anecdotal, and obviously fabricated. But if I had to guess, it's because they're terrible pilots. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11094	Posted - 2014.07.30 13:43:00 - [15] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: I believe swarms don't do 100% damage to incubi, so that needs fixing. The only weapons in this game that deals 100% Damage are Nova Knives. Swarm Launchers are Explosive Weapons, and as such deal 120% to armor (Incubi) and 80% to shields (Python). This is working as intended -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:04:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so latest update We're dropping the health increase on shield dropships to 500HP, and dropping any extra armour for the armour dropships entirely. Missile damage is staying the same as was stated in the first post, but I will add that light weapon damage mods are getting a buff to 3/5/7% in Charlie. Hopefully this should address some concerns somewhat, but we'll be keeping an eye on Swarm Launchers and give them more (or less) love in Delta as is needed. A 500HP buff on Shield Dropships is still far too high. Even if the Damage Modifiers were changed to 3/5/7%, this would still be an unnecessary nerf to the Swarm Launcher. If your plans are to nerf Swarm Launchers to correlate with the Damage Modifier changes, then it'd need to be a 2% nerf to remain consistent with the possible damage increase. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:09:00 - [17] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: They are only nerfing proto slightly, but are buffing std and adv launchers, so swarms aren't being nerfed. The term 'nerf' is defined as a reduction in efficency in one or more attributes to an item. Definiteively, yes Swarm Launchers are being nerfed. Furthermore, the "well they're buffing STD/ADV swarms too" argument is null because the Absolute Swarm Launcher damage (the highest amount of damage possible with a SL) is being reduced. If the best version of an item available is ineffective, then the changes to lower tiers will be irrelevant because they'll be ineffective as well. Anything else? -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:12:00 - [18] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Erm, no thank you. I spent a whole day testing the python, and have had past experiences with myrons, they need it, May I see the video and statistics behind this conclusion, or are we trying to use invalid anecdotes again? -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:14:00 - [19] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: The slight nerf proto is getting is hardly going to make it ineffective, and nit to mention tanks were already nerfed, and proto swarms already make dropships run ever since the damage profile fix. HAVs were nerfed to make SLs effective, so that point is null. Swarm Launchers are supposed to make Dropships run (or die if they stay). Something with both high speeds & DPS should not enjoy the benefits of high eHP and/or standing power. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:16:00 - [20] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: How about you go out in the field against proto av and tell me how much % of your hp is taken? And pythons have to fit a heavy advanced extender just to survive, hardly fair. All a Python has to fit to survive is an Afterburner of any tier. I don't see how that's unfair though. Every item in the game (be they HAV, LAV, or Dropsuit) has to fit defensive modules (such as an Armor Plate or Shield Extender) if they want to increase their survivability, so I fail to see why DSs should be any different. -HAND

Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:25:00 - [21] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: If a python fits and ab, he has the survivalbility of an lav, which is 2 shotted by swarms. And no vehicle has to fit a heavy hp mod to survive, exept shields. This fitting says otherwise. It can survive an entire clip, which is pretty generous considering how you can evade well before the Swarmer even reloads, and assuming your competent the 3rd Swarm will never even hit you. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11121	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:43:00 - [22] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: When the hp buff comes, I'll still run, but I will have more hp for my hardener when I get hit by something I can see until it hits, unless im right near a swarm or forger, and it will allow me to be able to flee from a double forge attack right away when I'm on cooldown, or a breach forge that takes my shields to 300, I'd get 1 shotted at that point. Have you ever been surprised by two forgers before? 3 shots and your dead, now it will be 4 shots, enough time to run away if you're surprised. Also, have you ever used a myron before? It's a flying coffin. So please, tell me, how is 500 shield hp bad? Maybe now I can use a light extender and put a side turret since all my pg and cpu won't be taken by my hp mod. I took the liberty of crossing out items that have no relevance in a Swarm Launcher balance discussion. Though for the sake of entertaining your obvious lack of education, I'll address those points. You already have plenty of time to run away from a Forge Gun, even if your caught off guard. A Python, can evade a FGer's range in 2.6s. Considering how the charge time of a Forge Gun rests at 4s, this is plenty of time to escape. Though if two players work together to bring down a target, it should die. 500HP is bad because it will allow Pythons to 'tank' a substantial amount of HP (according to Monkey MAC's calculations, 9.7k eHP, which is twice as much as an HAV), while still having the best speed, maneuverability, and damage in the game. It effectively removes the sacrifice in operating a Python. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11121	Posted - 2014.07.31 04:17:00 - [23] - Quote @JRleo jr The Afterburner grants a 150% bonus to Acceleration, not to mention that a Python begins flight the moment R1 is held down, so this is null. 2 Players removing themselves from a primary engagement to deal with another, should have guarranteed success assuming that they're midly competent. if a Python with 1 player can survive more than one player, it's broken. A 500HP buff means that a Python can have 4807 HP, which is more than an HAV (do I need to go into detail as to why that's broken)? It literally takes 2.6s to get out of a 300m range with a Python (assuming your 0m away from AV), which is well below the charge time of a Forge Gun. Swarm Launchers are an Anti-Vehicle weapon, and as such should be effective against vehicles. A Forge Gunner can expect his/her weapon to be effective against all vehicles, and the same can be said of Python users w/Missiles, and Incubi users w/Railguns. That argument is hypocritical, and null. Swarm Launchers can't be used against Infantry, and the argument of using a secondary (such as an SMG) is null because then you are assessing the SMG, not the Swarm Launcher. Though this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11162	Posted - 2014.08.01 17:03:00 - [24] - Quote 1325 * 1.1 = 1457.5 * 1.0956 = 1596HP Monkey, I think you need to adjust your math. Though it should also be mentioned that 1596HP will never 2HK any vehicle running defensive modules, barring LAVS. Amarrians have Fashion Sense, Matari have Common Sense. But in DUST Caldari have all the things! -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11170	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:00:00 - [25] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: How about flying a Python yourself and seeing the other side of the coin... the argument of AV and dropships is getting so annoying when people are not aware of the perspective of the other player. I've been operating Pythons and Incubi for months now, and I'm well aware of the V/AV scene from the pilot's perspective. And from my experience, I can honestly tell you that the Python's ability to easily evade AV within a very short period of time, coupled with the RoF and DPS the turrets have with ADS Operation means that it needs no HP buff. No role in the game should ever have all 3 attributes of combat (being 'Tank', Speed, and DPS). -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11185	Posted - 2014.08.02 05:55:00 - [26] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: so it's not as formidable anyway. 500.5HP of Damage per shot 536.25 RPM 4,473 DPS If you don't find this to be formidable, then arguing with you is pointless as you clearly lack credibility. 'Hotfix Charlie' Pythons = Flying Gunnlogis with 4,473 DPS. Also featuring 112m/s flight speeds :D -HAND

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