It just kinda bothers me to pull out my Python and as soon as I lift off theres a croud around a supply depot with 8 forge gunners and 8 Swarmers.

I think AV vs V is close to where it should be. Why does a ADS pilot think he can hover over a proto swarm and not have to worry about it. Proto swarmer has to empty clip to take it down... ADS should have to retreat and worry about AV if confronted.

If your unfortunate enough to run into a squad of AVers then it stands to reason your vehicle will most likely be lost.

A saturated effort of 16 players destroying 1 player is working as intended, so you won't get very far with your attempts to nerf it unless you can provide evidence that it' s OP on a 1:1 ratio. (which you cannot).

But feel free to try anyways.

I think a big issue here is that they attempted a half assed tiericide on vehicles, making instantaneous effectiveness the exact same regardless of tier of the active module you're using (ie 40% Reduction for Shield Hardener for all tiers). However AV obviously has NOT undergone tiericide. So If I put 3 Basic Hardeners on a Tank and my buddy puts 3 Complex Hardeners on his tank, my investment is very low but I resist that AV just as well as he does.

So what do you do? Require Proto AV to Kill Complex tanks? Well then Standard AV doesnt do **** against Basic Tanks because the basic is also balanced againts the Proto, since it has the same benefit as the Complex. Ok so Balance Standard AV against Basic, well ok now Proto AV rapes everything because all hardeners are balanced against Standard AV.

Tiericide is great if done right. I was not done right in Dust, because they only did it to part of the equation. You have to tiericide EVERYTHING, or nothing at all. Since I think making EVERYTHING like that is probably out of the question at that point, we need to move away from the tiericide in vehicles. We've already started to do that by making Damage Mods Tiered, we should continue with making Hardeners tiered again, and move away from this half-assed tiericide.

It just kinda bothers me to pull out my Python and as soon as I lift off theres a croud around a supply depot with 8 forge gunners and 8 Swarmers.

Yes - AV weps have tiers.
Yes - there is basically one tier of tanks (SP needed for MAD/GL is negligible)

BUT
You forgot the tanker's "hidden" tiers.
That is the module levels and the ability to fit more and better of them.
Not forgetting the L5 skills of module active and cooldown times etc.


No one can claim that (assuming equal player skill) minimal SP basic tank is as easy to kill as all level 5 SP tank.


In Dust HAVs (ignoring militias again), tiericide actually succeeded.
There are no (by all counts) better hulls with no drawbacks available.
But tanks get better if the players have wits to skill into right things and fit them properly.



Needless to say, Dust HAVs aren't finished. For example there are issues between MLT and STD hulls.

needless to say,

I understand that, HAVs are my main specialty. However while you are correct in the fact that the tiers are dictated by uptime and downtime, the instantaneous effectiveness is unchanged. This is problematic because the instantaneous effectiveness of AV weapons DOES change. Now if they both had those 'hidden tiers' it wouldn't be a problem, but the mixed system we have now is very problematic.