There has been a lot of chatter on these topics lately and I think the community has put together some really solid ideas. I thought I'd add some method to the madness and compile the general concepts into a spreadsheet to get some more direct feedback on the concepts at hand. Note that listed percentages are not final and are just preliminary values to get the idea across. Here are the general principles being the concepts discussed in the community:

Core Principles:

• Medium Frames in general need to be more survivable, though Logistics to a lesser extent than Assaults.
• Medium Frames should focus on HP regeneration and movement, and less on adding raw HP
• Minmatar Logistics is overly preferred in high level play, primarily because of its Repair Tool, making other Logistics less desirable.
• Currently lacking suit that specializes in indirect AV (Remotes/Proxies)
• Assaults need something intangible that other suits can't replicate, such as grenade capacity/damage
• Commando is redundant and performs the Assault role better than the Assault
• Commando is slower and more suited for a Defensive/Suppressive role rather than assault.
• Modifying Fire Rate of weapons modifies effective minimum range and has no effect on semi-auto weapons, and therefor should be avoided as a means to increase DPS.

Concepts to Consider:

• Normalizing Logistics Slot Layouts to be more similar to Assaults
• Normalizing Logistics HP to be more similar to Assaults
• Lowering Logistics base PG/CPU but drastically increasing fitting reduction bonus for Equipment for effective PG/CPU are the same, but only when using equipment.

Current Conceptual Problems:

• Minmatar Commando needs another suppression bonus
• Minmatar Assault Bonus is too similar to Commando Role Bonus

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7rSyT1rD-7q9xz8n4uqAFtqCtc6841cmx0vlf4IRSE/edit?usp=sharing

Ah ok so I probably wasn't very clear, so let me clarify.

So the issue was that Logis have tons of slots "for flexibility" and tons of resources so they can run both equipment, and tons of slots. Players would skip equipment, which would effectivly free up a ton of resources they would pour into HP mods and fill their ample slots with Complex mods and then reach insane levels of HP. This is bad and I dont support it. Now I'm not a fan of "Logi's should have fill all of their equipment" concept, I think its crude and unimaginitive.

So you have a couple issues here. 1. Lots of slots to stack HP mods. 2. Excessive resources that can be used for high level defensive modules, exceeding the abilities of an Assault.

So first of all lets give the Logis a similar number of slots to an Assault. There are not enough modules in the game to really have much flexibility anyways, especially since EWAR belongs to the scouts now. I'd give the Assaults probably 1 more module than the Logi on their main defensive rack (Cal and Min +1 High, Gal and Amm +1 Low. Much like Commandos and Sentinels). So already the Assault is going to be superior slot wise.

So what about resources? Well lets give them roughly the same PG and CPU, so now even if the Logi doesnt use equipment, he cant exceed the defensive capabilities of the Assault. On top of that, lets assume a Logi is using 4 equipment and an Assault has 1. If they rough have the same slots and resources, that means the Logi needs to also be able to equip 3 more equipment than the assault, but do so with the same PG and CPU. So lets bump up the Reduction bonus to around 15% a level, so a 75% reduction at level 5 makes 4 equip cost roughly the same as 1.

So in summary, even if a Logi equips no equipment, his resource pool is no greater than an assault, and he's also missing that extra slot. So there is no way to make that Logi superior to that assault, even if you skip equipment. However his equipment is so cheap to fit, that he doesnt really lose much in terms of defense if he uses the equipment, thus encouraging its use without allowing for abuse.


You'll also notice that in the spreadsheet, the Logis receive the same bonuses at an Assault, but only 3% instead of the Assault's 5%. In addition, none of those bonuses increase HP, only the rate at which those suits can rengenerate lost HP. The outlyer is the Amarr in that it gets a reduction to speed penalty, however while that helps it fit more plates with less of a downside, it doesn't actually increase the HP at all.

You really should take a closer look at the spreadsheet. I moved the Rep tool to be a bonus for ALL logi suits, and replaced the Minmatar bonus with the remove/proxy bonus. So if anything the Minmtar gets to keep repping as it has been and gains another bonus. No respec needed.

I also suggest you take a look at the response I just gave Nothi. Overall this would lead to an increase in survivability for Logis, though not allow them to exceed that of an Assault, while still remaining sustainable and viable in a hot zone.

Also I have Minmatar Logi V and have been using it for years. This is what happens when a poster doesnt properly read a post and attempts to 'respond' in a snarky fashion. I don't mean to be rude but please don't toss around assumptions that I dont know what I'm talking about before you properly understand the concept being presented.

Oh really? Do you have a post detailing these modules that are being added? I must have missed that one.

Look at this way dude. This is roughly what Id be proposing in a nutshell.

AFter all is said and done, a Logi, fully fitted, will have the same defensive abilities as as an Assault.

Difference is 1 less slot than the ASsault. And a 15% regen bonus instead of +25% the Assault gets.

What part of that do you dislike?

I think you're confused, that post was from March earlier this year. Those changes have already been implemented.

This won't happen in Dust 514 mate....and CCP is not going to relase future content for us in this game.

If they do your equipment can stand the **** aside for racial vehicle parity.

Ah you're right, I missed that line, my apologies. I worry that we're likely past that level of Development because of Legion thought

But that's fine if you want to be rude about it, I don't mind.




I completely understand the sentiment, however I think completely equal isn't quite appropriate either. Assaults will be directly assaulting enemy forces, while Logi's interaction with enemies is more indirect. It's that difference that drives the concept that the Assaults need to be a bit more survivable, since they'll be in the direct line of fire more often than a Logi is. Logi survivability still needs to be high, but Assaults needs to have a bit more. It's fine if you dont agree though, just a difference of opinion.

Thats not actually a guaranteed. Already we've seen some big differences between Dust and Legion, such as the removal of the Commando from Legion.

Well I think you're being a bit biased, but again difference of opinion.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a lot of people who think Logis and Assaults should have identical survivability.

By this logic a Heavy should not be able to kill better than an Assault. Also, killing isn't the only part of assaulting, survivability also is key. Being on the frontlines, an Assault should accel at killing, have a fair bit of ehp, and it should have the highest regen of all suits. The logi should not be able to survive on the frontlines, its job is rear support. So honestly, it should have lower stats in every category (aside from equipment) when compared to Assualts.