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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3118	Posted - 2014.07.21 22:59:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so what exactly are you complaing about? Or is this just simple Adipem Nothi wrote: Waah! It kiled me! Waah! Are you complaing about the EHP? The maximum achievable Tank is currently about 1600 EHP, this may seem like a lot, but for perspective a Standard Assault Rifle carries 1,800dmg per clip which it dispenses in less than 4 seconds. Now you also have to consider this 'Extreme EHP' comes at some sacrifices, mostly Gùå Largest Hitbox Gùå Slowest Speed Gùå Lack of Equipment So what exactly is the problem here? Are you prehaps complaining about the HMG? Currently the Highest Achievable DPS from the HMG is 800 DPS at the Far flung range of 30m. After that it's effectiveness drops rapidly until it's effective range at about 45m. Now this sounds very powerful, but there are a few considerations to be made. Firstly EVERY rifle in the game vastly outranges it, even the Assault Rifle. Provided you put enough distance between you there is nothing he can do. Secomdly the HMG has poor accuracy even after 20m you begin to loose DPS because your spread is so wide, by the time you reach further than 30m the only way to reliably submit damage is to stop, crouch and ADS making you an even easier target. In short if you are having trouble with Heavies you either need to 1. Not engage them in the tight spaces they are designed for 2. Get good I'll let you figure out which one aplies here. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3118	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:05:00 - [2] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok so what exactly are you complaing about? Or is this just simple Adipem Nothi wrote: Waah! It kiled me! Waah! Are you complaing about the EHP? The maximum achievable Tank is currently about 1600 EHP, this may seem like a lot, but for perspective a Standard Assault Rifle carries 1,800dmg per clip which it dispenses in less than 4 seconds. Now you also have to consider this 'Extreme EHP' comes at some sacrifices, mostly Gùå Largest Hitbox Gùå Slowest Speed Gùå Lack of Equipment So what exactly is the problem here? Are you prehaps complaining about the HMG? Currently the Highest Achievable DPS from the HMG is 800 DPS at the Far flung range of 30m. After that it's effectiveness drops rapidly until it's effective range at about 45m. Now this sounds very powerful, but there are a few considerations to be made. Firstly EVERY rifle in the game vastly outranges it, even the Assault Rifle. Provided you put enough distance between you there is nothing he can do. Secomdly the HMG has poor accuracy even after 20m you begin to loose DPS because your spread is so wide, by the time you reach further than 30m the only way to reliably submit damage is to stop, crouch and ADS making you an even easier target. In short if you are having trouble with Heavies you either need to 1. Not engage them in the tight spaces they are designed for 2. Get good I'll let you figure out which one aplies here. I like this Format. You are missing some BOLD thou... My apologies is this better? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3118	Posted - 2014.07.22 00:20:00 - [3] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Quote: Are you prehaps complaining about the HMG? Currently the Highest Achievable DPS from the HMG is 800 DPS at the Far flung range of 30m. After that it's effectiveness drops rapidly until it's effective range at about 45m. Now this sounds very powerful, but there are a few considerations to be made. Firstly EVERY rifle in the game vastly outranges it, even the Assault Rifle. Provided you put enough distance between you there is nothing he can do. Secomdly the HMG has poor accuracy even after 20m you begin to loose DPS because your spread is so wide, by the time you reach further than 30m the only way to reliably submit damage is to stop, crouch and ADS making you an even easier target. In short if you are having trouble with Heavies you either need to 1. Not engage them in the tight spaces they are designed for Why do people always come up with the same old rubbish about not getting in range of their HMG? its all well and good on an open map but when you assault a point and need to get in there what are ya gonna do against that heavy? i mean really? aside from getting the jump on said heavy you would have to hope that all your bullets successfully hit in order to kill them and if they manage to turn around quick enough you will most likely die. Heavies are too good at what they do and have very few counters. Apart from a shotty RE guy or another heavy it is incredibly hard to kill a heavy in a one on one fight at most objectives because they are mainly small rooms with a hack panel. How can you stay out of the optimal if you need to get in there? You just cant. That's exactly how it's meant to be though, if heavies with HMG weren't good in close, confined spaces why have them at all. If you know there is a heavy round the corner use a Mass Driver, or a plasma cannon, or ram a tank up his backside. Use scouts with Breach Shotguns and Cloaks, use grenades, use Forge guns, use Remote Explosives, use an Assault with 2/3 logis on his back. So in reality it's not a problem with the Heavy suit is it? It is down to the fact the HMG has somewhere it is good, very good amd you can't beat by just running round the corner, chop-strafing and using a damage modded rifle. It's called tactics and there are plenty of options available, stop trying to be the one man army all the time. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3122	Posted - 2014.07.22 10:55:00 - [4] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Quote: Are you prehaps complaining about the HMG? Currently the Highest Achievable DPS from the HMG is 800 DPS at the Far flung range of 30m. After that it's effectiveness drops rapidly until it's effective range at about 45m. Now this sounds very powerful, but there are a few considerations to be made. Firstly EVERY rifle in the game vastly outranges it, even the Assault Rifle. Provided you put enough distance between you there is nothing he can do. Secomdly the HMG has poor accuracy even after 20m you begin to loose DPS because your spread is so wide, by the time you reach further than 30m the only way to reliably submit damage is to stop, crouch and ADS making you an even easier target. In short if you are having trouble with Heavies you either need to 1. Not engage them in the tight spaces they are designed for Why do people always come up with the same old rubbish about not getting in range of their HMG? its all well and good on an open map but when you assault a point and need to get in there what are ya gonna do against that heavy? i mean really? aside from getting the jump on said heavy you would have to hope that all your bullets successfully hit in order to kill them and if they manage to turn around quick enough you will most likely die. Heavies are too good at what they do and have very few counters. Apart from a shotty RE guy or another heavy it is incredibly hard to kill a heavy in a one on one fight at most objectives because they are mainly small rooms with a hack panel. How can you stay out of the optimal if you need to get in there? You just cant. That's exactly how it's meant to be though, if heavies with HMG weren't good in close, confined spaces why have them at all. If you know there is a heavy round the corner use a Mass Driver, or a plasma cannon, or ram a tank up his backside. Use scouts with Breach Shotguns and Cloaks, use grenades, use Forge guns, use Remote Explosives, use an Assault with 2/3 logis on his back. So in reality it's not a problem with the Heavy suit is it? It is down to the fact the HMG has somewhere it is good, very good amd you can't beat by just running round the corner, chop-strafing and using a damage modded rifle. It's called tactics and there are plenty of options available, stop trying to be the one man army all the time. so in a close quaters battle you recommend a forge gun? And it should take the combined efforts of 4 people to down one heavy? Are you serious? Grenades are absolute garbage against heavies they take less than 400 damage to their armour hardly gonna stop the guy. I've done it before, most heavies don't reach max tank so a single shot from a mlt forge gun, will OHK most of them. I'm not saying you HAVE to use 3/4 people, but if you have the resources I don't see why not. Grenades and Mass Drivers work well, finally wave some bait in front of them and they will waddle straight into traps looking for eaay kills. It's not a case of Spam, it's people using a suit in an environment it was built for. If you have a problem with how that works I suggest you start finding your own way to counter them. Heavies don't need a nerf just because they manage to do their job. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3122	Posted - 2014.07.22 11:07:00 - [5] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Are you complaing about the EHP? The maximum achievable Tank is currently about 1600 EHP, this may seem like a lot, but for perspective a Standard Assault Rifle carries 1,800dmg per clip which it dispenses in less than 4 seconds. Now you also have to consider this 'Extreme EHP' comes at some sacrifices, mostly Gùå Largest Hitbox Gùå Slowest Speed Gùå Lack of Equipment So what exactly is the problem here? Are you prehaps complaining about the HMG? Currently the Highest Achievable DPS from the HMG is 800 DPS at the Far flung range of 30m. After that it's effectiveness drops rapidly until it's effective range at about 45m. Now this sounds very powerful, but there are a few considerations to be made. Firstly EVERY rifle in the game vastly outranges it, even the Assault Rifle. Provided you put enough distance between you there is nothing he can do. Secomdly the HMG has poor accuracy even after 20m you begin to loose DPS because your spread is so wide, by the time you reach further than 30m the only way to reliably submit damage is to stop, crouch and ADS making you an even easier target. In short if you are having trouble with Heavies you either need to 1. Not engage them in the tight spaces they are designed for 2. Get good I'll let you figure out which one aplies here. What about maps that are based in / around a complex? How can you counter 8-10 Heavies in the middle of the city if you aren't a Heavy yourself? Don't give me the "shotgun scout with REs, duh" excuse. Only the most talented Scouts can take out 3-4 Heavies in a row, without dying, and any Heavy with eyes can see a Scout coming at them, and if they're shot in the back they just turn around, backpedal, and strafe a bit to avoid the shots. I ran around as a ~500ish HP Proto Gal Scout all Friday and Saturday, with a Duvolle AR, and I saw at least 6 heavies 4/5 matches (although, to be fair, I played against Alex-ZX a lot XD). Something needs to be done about spam, although that does lead to an inevitable nerf (or, possibly an indirect nerf, like changing maps to be more open, but that's highly unlikely). Also, about your AR damage vs Heavy HP: The Duvolle AR does 453.2 DPS, far lower than an HMG, and still has a low range. When caught in a Heavy's optimal (which I often was - this goes back to the spam, combined with the AR's low range), I had no chance. Their large HP combined with their huge DPS and my low HP / DPS made me completely useless. But, I digress. The point is, the spam is outrageous, and nearly impossible to counter inside city maps, which are a good portion of all the maps. Also, I am a Heavy and Scout, and I'd be perfectly fine with a Heavy nerf. So you were caught in his Optimal and? Youd didn't expect to die? I know this is gonna seem odd, but have you ever ran from a heavy inside his optimal? Take a look at this graph. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oQQ9DSTVq-tvOhZDXICz63PmZcHcvJqntya_ It shows that even the Breach Assault Rifle will out DPS the HMG after 45m with greater than 300 DPS. Unfortunately the HMG itself is not on the graph but I would appreciate someome adding it in. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3122	Posted - 2014.07.22 12:28:00 - [6] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The issue is how the Sentinel is used (abused) and his scrub Logi fiends. Most games are locked-down by Heavy/Logi.. scrubs treating pubs like a PC,,, damn tryhards And then I recieve 'colourful' mail for tossing RE's at the scrubs who think camping an enclosed area was a bright idea.. It's not hence why we throw cookies for you F F** to have to deal with.. come out and fight or die in your hole then they QQ that RE's are OP yet in reality if they had the sense to engage you they would likely get the kill. CCP - please note - 50 ticket ambush is HELL without tanks, please re-instate Duna2002 so the Boundless HMG spam stops. - Nerfing remotes will take away the most effective way to flush out the rats. - Rep and uplink WP needs adjusting so the spamlogi's actually bother to re-supply rather than farm WP I'm going to stop myself here.. Heavy spam is affecting my clones Rage Regulators Now if there is a logi tied to a heavies back that's called teamwork, something this game is meant to be encouraging. If they are using teamwork to stop you, use teamwork to get them, the combo works well until someone starts using a Mass Driver to hit the logi first. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3125	Posted - 2014.07.22 23:07:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You say to engage them outside of their range, and talk about damage per clip. But you do understand that at that range, the rifles lose damage, right? It takes a special kind of heavy to die from long range fire. Ya know, the type that doesn't keep cover nearby. Also, if only heavies are designed for close encounters then there's a problem. It means you need to bring a heavy to counter a heavy. This causes an escalation problem where eventually the majority of the team are heavies. We don't want that with tanks, we don't want that with scouts, we don't want that with anything, and that includes heavies. Plenty of options have been mentioned THROUGHOUT this thread, each of these are capable of defeating your run-of-the-mill heavy. These do not include Heavies with Logis as this is considered teamwork and therefore will require an equal amount of teamwork to defeat. 1. Forge Guns, OHK all but the tankiest of heavies with a mlt variant. The high alpha damage will even bypass reps from his logi. Not to mention you are in a heavy suit so even at about 10m you can survive long enough to get 'Oh ** where did he come from shot' Pros Gùå OHK competly nullifies teamwork Gùå Forge Gun accuracy makes it easy to hit Gùå In confined Spaces splash damage will disrupt other enemies. Cons Gùå Running a Forge into a Complex is practically a 'Shoot Me' sign (You will need fire support) Gùå Charge Time (can be nullified by pre-charging) Gùå Be careful not to kill yourself with Splash Damage 2. Plasma Cannon, once again you are going High Alpha here, the idea is simple lob a half cooked flux and follow up with Plasma Slug. Done correctly no heavy can survive this 1-2 combo, further more you can equip this combo to a cloaked scout. Making it even easier to hunt down that pesky sentinel Pros Gùå Very quick to pull off Gùå Not SP intensive for light/medium suits Gùå Doubles as AV Cons Gùå Another 'Shoot Me' Sign Gùå Low Ammo Count 3. Breach Shotgun, these are the Heavy Killing variant of shotguns, they have increased damage, tighter spread and improved range. However a slower ROF and Reload paired with a 2 round mag make this a weapon not for the faint of heart. You cannot afford to miss. Pros Gùå Straight forward application (one treatment is all it takes) Gùå Enemy has reduced time to react (low TTK) GùåEffective against all forms of Infantry Cons Gùå Requires 100% Accuracy (anything less is death) Gùå Lack of range confines you to a very specific set of targets 4. Mass Drivers, are the bane of a heavies life, you can use a Mass Driver to seemingly hit from nowhere, his tacnet blindness won't help. Conveniently the Standard Mass Driver has a relatively high Splash Damage, which if used effectively will also nullify any triage hives and tethered logis. Not to mention explosions, cause instant termination so once he's gone, he is well and truly gone. Pros Gùå Hits Round Corners Gùå Terminates Clone Gùå Destroys Triage Hives Cons Gùå Restrictive Ammo Count Gùå Amarr and Caldari Sentinels are particularly resistant to this method (Flux Grenade is advised) 5. Remote Explosives. I don't need to go into too much detail, simply throw round a corner and watch them fly. It doesn't take up a weapon slot, it doesn't require a heavy suit and is still usable against both Infantry and Vehicles other than heavies. Pros Gùå Doesn't take up a weapon Gùå AI + AV effective Gùå OHK's most suits (even with resistances) Cons Gùå No nanohive (you and your 1337 skills will have to visit a supply depot once in a blue moon) Gùå Couldn't think of a second . . . . . . . . .oh wait, don't stand, on your own explosives when you detonate them. 6. Vehicles, 3 light rail gun shot, 3-4 missile, strikes will take out most heavies, just get a brick tanked suit, someone to drive and have at it. Pros Gùå Requires no SP Gùå Also AV + AI effective Cons Gùå Can be shot out if LAV Gùå Weak to AV There is litteraly a half dozen ways of, slaying heavies. They are all relatively fast to execute and 4 of them can be executed by scouts, the sentinel hard counter. There is no problem with Heavies the number of dead by the Hand of my Mass Driver will attest to that. The problem is and always will be the same. Everyone uses a rifle! You go to most matches and all but 2 people (who are in medium and light suits) will use one of the rifles. They run around like headless chickens and wonder why when they come up against the suit designed to be resistant to smalls arms fire, designed to take that rifle and shove it up their , designed to defend a point to the bitter end. They complain because they shot first and lost. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh* and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3125	Posted - 2014.07.22 23:17:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Breach Shotgun, these are the Heavy Killing variant of shotguns, they have increased damage, tighter spread and improved range. However a slower ROF and Reload paired with a 2 round mag make this a weapon not for the faint of heart. You cannot afford to miss. You can't be serious. Have you ever used one? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3127	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:02:00 - [9] - Quote castba wrote: BigStuarty wrote: I believe Heavies are fine and work as intended , I don't expect to run run into 1 and survive mano-vs mano. I have only 2 issues , the HMG range is a little to far and tacnet doesn't show them all the time. I don't expect a heavy to pop out of nowhere, I haven't numbered cruched but I do have a precision enhancer (complex) fitted so even if the heavy does have a dampener he should be a bright red blob. That aside they normally run as a pack and the RE specialists must have field days with them. I loathe REs and still trying to figure out how a scout jumps past me drops a RE and detonates out of harms way in less that a second, Is that myself using a PS3 controller automatically at a disadvantage ??? Though I do salute them and the ability to do it just pick on the heavies not me lol For your reference, two complex dampeners get a sentinel down to 31dB. What is your precision at? If you know a heavy who believes sacrificing 300+ EHP to be undectable by medium is worth it, please send him my sincerest apologies for the loss of his brain cells. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3127	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:30:00 - [10] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Breach Shotgun, these are the Heavy Killing variant of shotguns, they have increased damage, tighter spread and improved range. However a slower ROF and Reload paired with a 2 round mag make this a weapon not for the faint of heart. You cannot afford to miss. You can't be serious. Have you ever used one? Religiously. But that was back in Chromosome. They were pretty good prior to Uprising. Then their range got cut in half, and the average Heavy's HP doubled. Pick one up and see how far you get with the nearest GalSentinel. 2 shots from an Advamced + 2 adv damage modifiers leaves him on 164 armour (Proto Gal Sent) that is 40 less than the starting EHP of a light suit, dead man walking right there. 2 shots from a Pro + 2 Pro damage mods, Kills em outright! P.S A standard shotgun can be equally effective, but not as fun/tense. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3127	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:33:00 - [11] - Quote castba wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: If you know a heavy who believes sacrificing 300+ EHP to be undectable by medium is worth it, please send him my sincerest apologies for the loss of his brain cells. You have never played solo and run a dual damage modded, six kin wielding heavy that is only seen by scouts? Perhaps you should try it. I will admit though, it was more useful before half the enemy became scouts. I've played plenty of Scout only visible suits in my time, have to admit though it's not much use unless you like standing behind your soon to be dead target and pulling funny faces. Medium and Heavy suits don't get more than 15m range without an enhancer, if they can't physically see you by then, they are already dead. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3127	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:36:00 - [12] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: 2 shots from an Advamced + 2 adv damage modifiers leaves him on 164 armour (Proto Gal Sent) that is 40 less than the starting EHP of a light suit, dead man walking right there. 2 shots from a Pro + 2 Pro damage mods, Kills em outright! Give it a shot in game, cupcake. I do regularly, I also regularly use the other 5 methods mentioned as well. Don't call me Cupcake, Muffin! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3127	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:46:00 - [13] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: 2 shots from an Advamced + 2 adv damage modifiers leaves him on 164 armour (Proto Gal Sent) that is 40 less than the starting EHP of a light suit, dead man walking right there. 2 shots from a Pro + 2 Pro damage mods, Kills em outright! Give it a shot in game, cupcake. I do regularly, I also regularly use the other 5 methods mentioned as well. Don't call me Cupcake, Muffin! 1. I call bullsht Rebuttal: Call it what you like, even if I'm not fortunate enough to kill him by myself a stray grenade usually gets him, DEAD MAN WALKING* 2. If they worked well -- which they don't -- why are they so rare? Rebuttal: They all work well, the problem is most people seem to lack the ability to string two things together to make a coherent tactic, that and all everyone uses is Rifles. 3. You know what isn't rare? Heavies. Neither are: Scouts Commandos Tanks Dropships Assault Rifles Combat Rifles Rail Rifles Scrambler Rifles LAV's Orbitals Snipers Remote Explosives Nanohives Repair Tools Forge Guns Swarm Launchers Grenades Logis Are all these OP as well? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

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