DUST Search - In-game Banking - Loans

Malkai Inos wrote:

Unidentified Caldarian wrote:

Malkai Inos wrote:

I frankly don't think CCP should moderate or otherwise interact with such activity in the first place.

Banking/loan systems are a clear example of emergent gameplay and as such should be fully operated by players, including the risks involved.

This is New Eden after all and part of that is both your freedom to do whatever you damn well please with any ISKies in your possession but also that you have to accept that it is not just outside of CCP's capabilities but also not their responsibility to take action when someone just takes off with the money you voluntarily transferred to him.

Also, relevant

Hmm yes this would be a possibility for someone you couldn't trust. But CCP would be moderating it anyways.

They don't have a history of moderating things like that. At all.

Quite to the contrary, the link I provided states the chief executive of a player controlled bank, who has scammed players out of ~200bn ISK, would not have faced any repercussions from CCP, had he not proceeded to sell the ISK for real world currency.

CCP is generally known to stay out of player's ingame businesses. This includes lying, espionage, larceny, scams, con jobs and extortion as long as everything happens within the confines of the game.

You can even do things that, for pretty much any other company, would qualify as bannable harassment without punishment as long as you can prove that you're not going out of your way just to make someone's play time hell but that the harassment is a means to an end (like financial gain or seizing control over resources).

That's not to say that CCP is never giving players tools to protect themselves from scams et al. to some degree. Many risky actions you can make prompt clear warning messages alerting you of the potential danger of, for example, accepting a courier contract and depositing an escrow only to get ambushed and killed by the very same person who was issuing said contract in the first place so he can keep the escrow.

Beyond that though, you're pretty much responsible for your own well being as CCP will generally not intervene with ingame behavior as long as it doesn't leave the sandbox. If someone takes a hefty loan from you without intending to pay any of it back, that's your problem and you will have to account for the possibility. As harsh as it sounds.


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Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 155	Posted - 2014.07.21 19:45:00 - [1] - Quote I sent this in as a ticket: "Hey CCP! First off you guys are doing great with the hotfixes. Everyone loves the evening out of the gameplay. I have a proposal that I think you might enjoy. I would like to be an official loans corporation of Pezzin Family Inc. (my "banking" corporation). We will give loans to only 5 people at a time of a max amount of 10 million ISK (this can change or you could help me out) which they must pay us back. This is where you come in, you guys will be basically the Moderators of the operation by enforcing the laws. This would help you guys with data of any kind and help out ISK needy players So if your interested I'll fix out the details of course and I'll do anything to help and get this underway! Oh yeah and there would a profit for the Bank/myself by putting a tax on the loan when you have to pay it back (Ex: 15% tax = 10,000,000 ISK loan and 15,000,000 payment back." Response from GM Scotsman: "Hi there. This is GM Scotsman. While we applaud your idea, we cannot feasibly moderate it. For example, player x creates an alt character to borrow 10,000,000 ISK. That player then donates multiple splits of that money to different players, corporations etc... Player then biomasses the alt character. You then contact us to inform us that player x does not show up on your contacts anymore and owes you 10 million ISK. We then have to spend hours following the money trail. By that time, most players would have spent the money on items which were then lost in battle. It would be far too complex to moderate efficiently. Again, we are not putting the idea down, it's just that a banking system like this would be extremely difficult to enforce properly. We would not like to see you lose vast amounts of ISK to unscrupulous players. We would be very limited as to what we can do to intervene in such matters. We would therefore encourage you to post your feedback and ideas on the DUST 514 forums for further discussion. Members of the DEV team really do constantly monitor the forums to get feedback from players, and you may find discussing your ideas with other players can help improve it as well. Please visit the link provided below to file a proper report: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=730 We have many examples of suggestions there making it into the game, so we'd again encourage you to use this channel, as it is both the correct one, and the most effective too. If you have any other questions or problems, please let us know and we'll be happy to assist you further. Best Regards, GM Scotsman CCP Customer Support \| EVE Online \| DUST 514" Downfalls to the Banking/Insurance system: - Hard to moderate - Difficult to track down payments Any ides on how to make this easier for CCP to navigate/moderate? "Falsely misquoted in a bible..." - Jett Pezzin
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 158	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:35:00 - [2] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: 15% of 10,000,000 =/= 5,000,000 Yeah my bad. Typo :P "Falsely misquoted in a bible..." - Jett Pezzin
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 158	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:38:00 - [3] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: I frankly don't think CCP should moderate or otherwise interact with such activity in the first place. Banking/loan systems are a clear example of emergent gameplay and as such should be fully operated by players, including the risks involved. This is New Eden after all and part of that is both your freedom to do whatever you damn well please with any ISKies in your possession but also that you have to accept that it is not just outside of CCP's capabilities but also not their responsibility to take action when someone just takes off with the money you voluntarily transferred to him. Also, relevant Hmm yes this would be a possibility for someone you couldn't trust. But CCP would be moderating it anyways. "Falsely misquoted in a bible..." - Jett Pezzin
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.07.22 03:50:00 - [4] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Unidentified Caldarian wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: I frankly don't think CCP should moderate or otherwise interact with such activity in the first place. Banking/loan systems are a clear example of emergent gameplay and as such should be fully operated by players, including the risks involved. This is New Eden after all and part of that is both your freedom to do whatever you damn well please with any ISKies in your possession but also that you have to accept that it is not just outside of CCP's capabilities but also not their responsibility to take action when someone just takes off with the money you voluntarily transferred to him. Also, relevant Hmm yes this would be a possibility for someone you couldn't trust. But CCP would be moderating it anyways. They don't have a history of moderating things like that. At all. Quite to the contrary, the link I provided states the chief executive of a player controlled bank, who has scammed players out of ~200bn ISK, would not have faced any repercussions from CCP, had he not proceeded to sell the ISK for real world currency. CCP is generally known to stay out of player's ingame businesses. This includes lying, espionage, larceny, scams, con jobs and extortion as long as everything happens within the confines of the game. You can even do things that, for pretty much any other company, would qualify as bannable harassment without punishment as long as you can prove that you're not going out of your way just to make someone's play time hell but that the harassment is a means to an end (like financial gain or seizing control over resources). That's not to say that CCP is never giving players tools to protect themselves from scams et al. to some degree. Many risky actions you can make prompt clear warning messages alerting you of the potential danger of, for example, accepting a courier contract and depositing an escrow only to get ambushed and killed by the very same person who was issuing said contract in the first place so he can keep the escrow. Beyond that though, you're pretty much responsible for your own well being as CCP will generally not intervene with ingame behavior as long as it doesn't leave the sandbox. If someone takes a hefty loan from you without intending to pay any of it back, that's your problem and you will have to account for the possibility. As harsh as it sounds. I said CCP will have it's consent and be able to moderate the banking operation. They said they would but it would be a lot of work so it's a sort of no ("We're not putting the idea down"). I know that CCP doesn't go into players' business but this would be constantly moderated. But yes I do know that if someone were to "steal" the 10 mil, CCP could do nothing about it (whoever would do this can go fck themselves (hint hint: V-E-X)). "Falsely misquoted in a bible..."* - Jett Pezzin