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Baal Omniscient
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1980
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Posted - 2014.07.20 06:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I believe part of the problem with how effective scanning modules are is how easy they are to fit. They require no PG, allowing easy stacking of armor OR shields, and their CPU costs aren't exactly shield recharger level either. These low fitting requirements allow a player to easily scan-tank their suit without losing out on fitting other modules.
I suggest increasing the PG/CPU costs of all scanning modules in order to force people running them to have to make sacrifices on their suit.
Example CPU/PG numbers
Precision Enhancers:
18/2
30/4
52/7
Range Amplifiers:
14/3
25/5
38/8
Profile Dampners:
16/4
27/7
40/10
Just example numbers, but the idea is that the PG/CPU needs to directly effect the suit's ability to tank eHP.
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
368
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Posted - 2014.07.20 06:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nah to be honest, as much as I hate Caldari Scouts, this would be unfair to them.
It would also negate the attempts to buff Minmatar Scout capacity.
i keel you
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Baal Omniscient
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1980
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Posted - 2014.07.20 06:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:Nah to be honest, as much as I hate Caldari Scouts, this would be unfair to them.
It would also negate the attempts to buff Minmatar Scout capacity.
This is not meant to target Calscouts, it is meant to target all scouts who wish to stack scans or damps. Amarr and Gallente do it as well. Since the Minmatar scout's slots are already mostly preordained to be used for Kincats/codebreakers and shields due to their need for as much eHP as possible they will likely be effected by this the least.
Also, since the precision skill is going to the Amarr scout this will reduce their ability to stack plates AND scans. The idea isn't to nerf anybody, but to make people give up something for their scanning modules just like you need to with every other module.
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
666
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Posted - 2014.07.20 08:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
227
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Posted - 2014.07.20 09:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again.
It appears this is a thread about reducing the number of scan-tanked suits on the field. If you wish to address brick tanked scouts, I recommend you post something here
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
666
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Posted - 2014.07.20 10:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
trollface dot jpg wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again. It appears this is a thread about reducing the number of scan-tanked suits on the field. If you wish to address brick tanked scouts, I recommend you post something here
My point is that if you increase fitting costs for EWar modules, you'll push more scouts towards brick tanking, which is worse for the game, overall.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
3656
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Posted - 2014.07.20 14:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
When I run a Scan scout(Gallente) I always have tons of PG left over, so I don't think it would effect me.
However, it might screw over the Minny Scout and I don't wanna see that.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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iKILLu osborne
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
86
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Posted - 2014.07.20 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again.
exactly whoever made this biased scout thread go home
here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol
after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1595
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Posted - 2014.07.20 14:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
This really encourages brick tanking, as non one would be able to fit kin cats and PD's, and precisions wouldn't even be worth it
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
554
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Posted - 2014.07.20 15:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:I believe part of the problem with how effective scanning modules are is how easy they are to fit. They require no PG, allowing easy stacking of armor OR shields, and their CPU costs aren't exactly shield recharger level either. These low fitting requirements allow a player to easily scan-tank their suit without losing out on fitting other modules.
I suggest increasing the PG/CPU costs of all scanning modules in order to force people running them to have to make sacrifices on their suit.
Example CPU/PG numbers
Precision Enhancers:
18/2
30/4
52/7
Range Amplifiers:
14/3
25/5
38/8
Profile Dampners:
16/4
27/7
40/10
Just example numbers, but the idea is that the PG/CPU needs to directly effect the suit's ability to tank eHP.
I would like to see more CPU OR PG added to these modules
But not both
And especially not this much
But more brick tanking scouts isn't a problem
Currently, a 800 HP Gal scout with 5-10 reps a second isn't as big an issue as an Double damped and cloacked shotgun 400hp gal scout
Closed Beta Vet/ Chromosome and Corp battle Vet/ Uprising 1.0-Now PC vet
Ex D.F. Director
Current Inner.Hell Director
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Baal Omniscient
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1982
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Posted - 2014.07.20 15:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again.
This:
CHANCEtheChAn wrote:But more brick tanking scouts isn't a problem
Currently, a 800 HP Gal scout with 5-10 reps a second isn't as big an issue as an Double damped and cloacked shotgun 400hp gal scout
CHANCEtheChAn wrote:I would like to see more CPU OR PG added to these modules
But not both
And especially not this much
My numbers were simply examples to push the idea of ebbing up the numbers, they were chosen completely at random just to push the idea.
If they were to only increase one or the other (not against this at all as long as it's substantial enough to cause fitting sacrifices), I would recommend going with PG since they have no PG costs currently and both shields and armor are PG intensive.
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
558
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Posted - 2014.07.20 16:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again. This: CHANCEtheChAn wrote:But more brick tanking scouts isn't a problem
Currently, a 800 HP Gal scout with 5-10 reps a second isn't as big an issue as an Double damped and cloacked shotgun 400hp gal scout CHANCEtheChAn wrote:I would like to see more CPU OR PG added to these modules
But not both
And especially not this much My numbers were simply examples to push the idea of ebbing up the numbers, they were chosen completely at random just to push the idea. If they were to only increase one or the other (not against this at all as long as it's substantial enough to cause fitting sacrifices), I would recommend going with PG since they have no PG costs currently and both shields and armor are PG intensive.
Agree with the PG
Amarr and Gallente will now be the most E-war intensive scouts
But also have the highest PG of all the scouts
And Min will be getting a PG buff
+1
Closed Beta Vet/ Chromosome and Corp battle Vet/ Uprising 1.0-Now PC vet
Ex D.F. Director
Current Inner.Hell Director
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
668
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Posted - 2014.07.20 16:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again. This: CHANCEtheChAn wrote:But more brick tanking scouts isn't a problem
Currently, a 800 HP Gal scout with 5-10 reps a second isn't as big an issue as an Double damped and cloacked shotgun 400hp gal scout
How isn't the brick tanked Scout a problem? They maintain the low base EWar, allowing them an advantage over medium frames while maintaining a stronger combination of EHP, speed/mobility as well as equipment flexibility.
Thing is, making EWar prohibitively expensive will only drive Scouts to the brick tanking method. Honestly, I'm not entirely against the principle - as you say, the numbers are flexible - but I think we should look at the Assaults/Logis first and make them viable, which is the route Rattati is taking right now.
After the Assault buff, perhaps the Scouts will have fallen in to line.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Baal Omniscient
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1984
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Posted - 2014.07.20 17:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Thing is, increasing the capacity values for the EWar mods has a negative effect on balancing Scouts in that it encourages more to brick tank once again. By having the EWar mods being cheap to fit, they are encouraged where if you increase the cap value up to similar to tank mods, you'll just see tanked Scouts. Again. This: CHANCEtheChAn wrote:But more brick tanking scouts isn't a problem
Currently, a 800 HP Gal scout with 5-10 reps a second isn't as big an issue as an Double damped and cloacked shotgun 400hp gal scout How isn't the brick tanked Scout a problem? They maintain the low base EWar, allowing them an advantage over medium frames while maintaining a stronger combination of EHP, speed/mobility as well as equipment flexibility. Thing is, making EWar prohibitively expensive will only drive Scouts to the brick tanking method. Honestly, I'm not entirely against the principle - as you say, the numbers are flexible - but I think we should look at the Assaults/Logis first and make them viable, which is the route Rattati is taking right now. After the Assault buff, perhaps the Scouts will have fallen in to line.
They are less of an issue, I'd meant to remove the first half of that comment. They are less of an issue than scan-tanked or damp-tanked suits. A brick-tanked scout's eWar can be avoided by sacrificing some of your own eHP for damps, but you are helpless against a scan-tanked scout's scans.
I'm not suggesting this for Charlie, I'm merely spitballing balancing concepts because I have nothing better to do today.
Also, I think bonuses to scanning modules of any type as a role bonus was a bad call. They should have their current passive bonus per level since they are scouts and need some level of tacnet advantage over other suits, but giving scan or damp superiority to a single class is far too large of a bonus for any class. There are no bonuses you can give to another class to make up for that disadvantage short of massive eHP and damage resistances. Which we already have a class doing.
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4271
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Posted - 2014.07.20 18:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:When I run a Scan scout(Gallente) I always have tons of PG left over, so I don't think it would effect me.
However, it might screw over the Minny Scout and I don't wanna see that.
Yeah I've noticed that my PG is way too high on my Galscout, I have never capped it unless I run a G-I with something like a MLT Kincat. It's very hard to cap out Gallente PG.
However Minnows....Minnows will have no innate eWar bonuses at all tied to their skills. Only hack/Nova Knife and possibly movement. Thus if they go to fit a dampener, the highest costing eWar module, they'd have PG collisions with Kincats or Code Breakers. Because they are barren of eWar bonuses, they get shafted on high modules.
If they dedicate all their high slots to Precision enhancers, they only get .3 points below a GalSpook precision. Only .3 below for a whole other module. That does not shaft the Gallente scout at all it shafts the minnow. So what else can they fit in their high slots? Shields & Damage mods & Melee mods & Shield Rechargers. Shield Rechargers are out of the picture, the minnow has too little HP to feel the effects. Shields are PG heavy (not that heavy but more than most mods) and help make up where the minnow lacks but again, it could shaft their fit. Damage mods have some PG, not too much. They could perhaps get away with them and melee mods are very easy to fit. Basically the Minnow can't viably hide from the PG costs...
Basically, in short, even with a little helping hand the minnow could still be in severe trouble with higher fitting costs to eWar mods, particularly damps. Also, while I agree that I have too much PG on my hands, I don't see a reason to make them cost all that much higher when dampeners are 100% countered by LOS scan. When LOS scan has 0 precision, and 80+ meter range. They are also trying to remove shared passive scan results which is good but in the end if they had higher costs shared passive scan would be argued to stay.....
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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