DUST Search - IMO the Scout problem is an EWAR problem

Jebus McKing wrote:

After reading so many threads about scouts and cloaks and nerfs I really get the impression that most people don't realise how much of a problem the scanning/EWAR system is.

What is nerfing the scout's stats good for when they can still at any time see you through walls and on their radar?

You guys are being easily killed by scouts because they always know where you are. They can see you coming from up to 100m away. No buff/nerf in the world could save you if you lose on the information war. Having a wallhack on non-stop is too big of an advantage.

Even if you realized that you are being killed so much because you are being perma-scanned, just equip 1 or 2 complex dampeners on your Assault suit and you should be fine, right?

WRONG! The only thing you accomplished is wasting 2 slots on dampeners. And this shows another problem of the current EWAR system:
It is too damn complicated.

Most people who have been concerned with scanning/EWAR probably know Haerr's scanning table. It's just ridiculous how complicated the system is and in most cases even 2 complex dampeners will not save you from being scanned.

For me personally the whole EWAR/scanning system as it is right now is what makes me rage and eventually quit everytime I come back to this game. I can't be the only one. I can't understand why there isn't a huge outcry about this system here on the forums every ******* day.

Does the majority here on the forums really enjoy this scanning system, where your only 2 options are to either use a scout with max dampening skills and multiple dampeners, or else be visible to a Cal scout and his entire squad all the time?

Would it be so wrong if everyone was able to use 2 complex dampeners on a medium suit to be entirely invisible to the enemy radars?

"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.

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Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 509	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:55:00 - [1] - Quote After reading so many threads about scouts and cloaks and nerfs I really get the impression that most people don't realise how much of a problem the scanning/EWAR system is. What is nerfing the scout's stats good for when they can still at any time see you through walls and on their radar? You guys are being easily killed by scouts because they always know where you are. They can see you coming from up to 100m away. No buff/nerf in the world could save you if you lose on the information war. Having a wallhack on non-stop is too big of an advantage. Even if you realized that you are being killed so much because you are being perma-scanned, just equip 1 or 2 complex dampeners on your Assault suit and you should be fine, right? WRONG! The only thing you accomplished is wasting 2 slots on dampeners. And this shows another problem of the current EWAR system: It is too damn complicated. Most people who have been concerned with scanning/EWAR probably know Haerr's scanning table. It's just ridiculous how complicated the system is and in most cases even 2 complex dampeners will not save you from being scanned. For me personally the whole EWAR/scanning system as it is right now is what makes me rage and eventually quit everytime I come back to this game. I can't be the only one. I can't understand why there isn't a huge outcry about this system here on the forums every ******* day. Does the majority here on the forums really enjoy this scanning system, where your only 2 options are to either use a scout with max dampening skills and multiple dampeners, or else be visible to a Cal scout and his entire squad all the time? Would it be so wrong if everyone was able to use 2 complex dampeners on a medium suit to be entirely invisible to the enemy radars? And so the flames shall consume me. @JebusMcKing
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10648	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:02:00 - [2] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Would it be so wrong if everyone was able to use 2 complex dampeners on a medium suit to be entirely invisible to the enemy radars? Considering how you have to pretty much ruin the suit to fit that, no, it wouldn't. And on that day, that very day, not a single Pilot had lived... -HAND
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:03:00 - [3] - Quote Sometimes i like being seen by all. Helps bring the whole group to my killbox faster. I am the cool. Shamma lamma mu mu
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 971	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:41:00 - [4] - Quote The problem is that too many prominent players and posters rely on this. It is hard to change things people like. Ewar is for scouts and one logi, the rest of us are screwed by the current system, I find it to be more annoying than the permascanning ballet scanners. Because, that's why.
Everything Dies BIKINI BOTTOM BRIGADE 826	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:46:00 - [5] - Quote Scouts shouldn't enjoy BOTH high scanning precision and low profile signatures; let them keep the low profile to help them evade heavies and give the assaults the high scanning precision so that they can hunt the scouts. Then you'd have the rock-paper-scissor interplay at work: Scout- able to get the drop on heavies, but can be detected by assaults Assault- strong enough to find and hunt down scouts but can't compete in a 1v1 with heavies Heavy- stronger than assaults but are vulnerable to scouts due to their slow speed and lack of scanning awareness Logi- there to make everything just a bit better and utilize the active scanners Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 538	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:48:00 - [6] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: After reading so many threads about scouts and cloaks and nerfs I really get the impression that most people don't realise how much of a problem the scanning/EWAR system is. What is nerfing the scout's stats good for when they can still at any time see you through walls and on their radar? You guys are being easily killed by scouts because they always know where you are. They can see you coming from up to 100m away. No buff/nerf in the world could save you if you lose on the information war. Having a wallhack on non-stop is too big of an advantage. Even if you realized that you are being killed so much because you are being perma-scanned, just equip 1 or 2 complex dampeners on your Assault suit and you should be fine, right? WRONG! The only thing you accomplished is wasting 2 slots on dampeners. And this shows another problem of the current EWAR system: It is too damn complicated. Most people who have been concerned with scanning/EWAR probably know Haerr's scanning table. It's just ridiculous how complicated the system is and in most cases even 2 complex dampeners will not save you from being scanned. For me personally the whole EWAR/scanning system as it is right now is what makes me rage and eventually quit everytime I come back to this game. I can't be the only one. I can't understand why there isn't a huge outcry about this system here on the forums every ******* day. Does the majority here on the forums really enjoy this scanning system, where your only 2 options are to either use a scout with max dampening skills and multiple dampeners, or else be visible to a Cal scout and his entire squad all the time? Would it be so wrong if everyone was able to use 2 complex dampeners on a medium suit to be entirely invisible to the enemy radars? The only people who are really perma scanning are the ck.0 scouts running 3-4 Precision Enhancers, and this will change in hotfix charlie. And why are you putting dampeners on an assault? Dampeners were never meant for any other class than scouts. Granted assaults are in a bad position right now, but again, that will change in the next hotfix with buffs to assaults health, mods, etc. IMO EWar makes this game really interesting and always keeps me on my toes. It's what makes this game so unique. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 117	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:55:00 - [7] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Scouts shouldn't enjoy BOTH high scanning precision and low profile signatures; let them keep the low profile to help them evade heavies and give the assaults the high scanning precision so that they can hunt the scouts. Then you'd have the rock-paper-scissor interplay at work: Scout- able to get the drop on heavies, but can be detected by assaults Assault- strong enough to find and hunt down scouts but can't compete in a 1v1 with heavies Heavy- stronger than assaults but are vulnerable to scouts due to their slow speed and lack of scanning awareness Logi- there to make everything just a bit better and utilize the active scanners wow, that's a really good idea. It gives a clear counter to every suit and makes Assaults rightly feared on the battlefield. Hmm... maybe something for CCP to think about.
Clone D Grundstein Automation 607	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:10:00 - [8] - Quote The numbers presented here are for demonstration purposes only. They would have to be refined and balanced. Scan Profile - Base scan profile should be determined by dropsuit type (light/medium/heavy frame), however not all dropsuits within the same class should be the same scan profile. I.e. Light Frame Basic 41db, Adv 38db, Pro 35db and similar structure for medium/heavy - Scan profile should increase when you add armor Basic +5db, Adv +7db, Pro +8db - Weapons should have a scan profile Sidearm + 1db, Light + 3db, Heavy + 5db Profile Dampening - The way profile dampeners work is fine Range Amplification - Default dropsuit scan range should be 30m across the board! Why would one dropsuit have a diff range than another just because it is a diff class of suit? That makes no sense. Also, anything less than 30m makes TACNET worthless. -Stacking penalties should not apply to range amplifiers. Range amplifiers are weak enough as it is. Scan Precision - Default dropsuit scan precision should be 55 across the board! Why would one dropsuit have a diff scan precision than another just because it is a diff class of suit? That makes no sense. - The way precision enhancers work is fine A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 675	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:28:00 - [9] - Quote 100 meters scanning range... hah! I wish. Even with three range amps on my Min, I can only get up to 76 meters, and that means goodbye hiding ability! I mean, it's quite nice only having 270 shielding and 87 armor, certainly not like I'm giving up anything to get those wallhacks. It takes three profile dampeners to get under the average Cal scout with their 453 shielding suits, or any of the other scouts running a single precision enhancer. Fit for E-War, most scouts will have less than 400eHP, meaning they die very, very quickly to anything and everything. Note that anything that's not a Cal or Gal scout has to give up around three slots to have a proper E-War fitting that gives them more than a few meters of scanning range. The sacrifice is the same to have wallhacks in most cases as it is to hide from them. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5675	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:48:00 - [10] - Quote You're somewhat right. Improving the E-war capabilities of assaults might make them stand out a little more. An assault should be able to stand up to a scout in Ewar- with mods. For example, an assault without mods will be scannable by a caldari scout without mods If the assault fits a dampener, a caldari scout won't be able to scan them unless they fit a precision amp Without mods, an assault will not be able to scan a scout without mods With a precision amp, an assault will be able to scan a scout, unless said scout has a dampener or a cloak active What this essentially does is force scouts to fit more Ewar mods, rather than brick tanking. Even if the scout has an Ewar advantage against an assault, the assault will have better flat-out combat stats to fight them with. Along with this, heavy frames will be at a massive EWar disadvantage against everything to make up for their ridiculous health and damage. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè

Rowdy Railgunner Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 437	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:51:00 - [11] - Quote My Gal scout is in a good place right now. I have a lot of SP invested into it though so I should have a slight advantage over a militia fit, and Cal scouts hate my ASR fit. Come at me bro.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1531	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:01:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Would it be so wrong if everyone was able to use 2 complex dampeners on a medium suit to be entirely invisible to the enemy radars? Considering how you have to pretty much ruin the suit to fit that, no, it wouldn't. Except scouts have to fit 2-3 dampeners next patch 3 for Min/Am 2 for Cal/Gal So having to use fewer damps on a med frame than a scout, aside from not making sense, invalidates the use of scout, leading to med frame 514 yet again. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 39	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:33:00 - [13] - Quote Hate to break your bubble but a medium suit can scan heavy's through walls too...


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