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HMG Targeting and Hit Detection Question.

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Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1486	Posted - 2014.07.16 10:56:00 - [1] - Quote Dear CCP, If you can remember, prior to Uprising 1.4 many of us veteran heavies had noticed something "off" about the HMG. Several threads and support tickets were created, and a video was eventually made (linked in original thread below) before it was decided that, indeed, the HMG was not operating as intended. Thread with Video My thread in Feedback The HMG is back to operating exactly like in the video, the only difference being it has a new Reticule. Honestly, the new reticule just pisses me off more when bunny hopping, uberstrafing, speed tanked Mercs are dancing in a hail of HMG bullets, but take absolutely no damage unless the tiny, barely visible dot in the center touches the target, lighting an orange crosshair. Did you really think nobody would notice? "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1488	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:05:00 - [2] - Quote Mikey Ducati wrote: Hmmm interesting. I thought this was just me. Not to say I always noticed it but I did notice it once or twice. Of course, more games played and I didn't bother to check again. So the HMG has become the blaster? Will you be making a video about this? I unfortunately do not have the ability to make a video of it. Maybe someone else from the community could lend a hand. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1488	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:25:00 - [3] - Quote Mikey Ducati wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Mikey Ducati wrote: Hmmm interesting. I thought this was just me. Not to say I always noticed it but I did notice it once or twice. Of course, more games played and I didn't bother to check again. So the HMG has become the blaster? Will you be making a video about this? I unfortunately do not have the ability to make a video of it. Maybe someone else from the community could lend a hand. That would be great. If I had the capabilities, I would definitely film and upload it. I will be monitoring this in my game sessions today. All I really want is for CCP to decide what they want the HMG to be: A sniper accurate Ultra High DPS Short - Mid Range Weapon OR A Very inaccurate Ultra High RoF Short - Mid Range Bullet Hose that only does its full amount of DPS in Point Blank Range It just simply cant be both. It can't look like one and act like the other. If I am doing my full DPS in the center, fix the animations to match. Don't show me a bunch of bullets spraying all around the target if they don't and never will do damage to anything, its confusing. Fix the reticule too, while you're at it, it should look like a combination of the Forge Gun and Lazor Rifle reticules (orange crosshairs appearing as they are now would be perfect on this. If I am spraying my full DPS in a cone the size of my targeting reticule (as I always thought the HMG was supposed to do) then please, whatever you did on or after 1.4 to fix this please do it again. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1489	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:06:00 - [4] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: So you're telling me that the HMG is currently too hard to aim and kill with.... No, I'm telling CCP that the HMG either needs updated animations and a new reticule, or a bug fix. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1490	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:12:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: So you're telling me that the HMG is currently too hard to aim and kill with.... Furthermore, If I can get close enough to anyone with my HMG to shoot them with it, while they are wielding a RR or CR or ScrR or SR or any of the other various and sundry Light infantry weapons which are more than capable of cutting down even the most Brick tanked Heavy from 70 - 90 m away, then you, good sir, deserve to get shredded to bits. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1490	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:15:00 - [6] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: So you're telling me that the HMG is currently too hard to aim and kill with.... No, I'm telling CCP that the HMG either needs updated animations and a new reticule, or a bug fix. When I use it, it seems more than fine. I don't even have to aim, i just hold down R1 and try to control the rise on it, while i let auto-aim track strafers. The key is to counter strafe and let auto aim do the work for you Bahahahahahah You are trying to tell me that a weapon is too easy to use, but you use auto aim lmmfao /facepalm No, no I don't use auto aim. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1490	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:17:00 - [7] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: So you're telling me that the HMG is currently too hard to aim and kill with.... Furthermore, If I can get close enough to anyone with my HMG to shoot them with it, while they are wielding a RR or CR or ScrR or SR or any of the other various and sundry Light infantry weapons which are more than capable of cutting down even the most Brick tanked Heavy from 70 - 90 m away, then you, good sir, deserve to get shredded to bits. CR can only do that at proto, and thats at the minimum range listed ScR would be good if it didn't require 6 overheats to take a sentinel down at that range SR can't kill heavies. I don't know if that was a joke or what. AR? You're forgetting an entire rifle class Are you purposefully trying to derail my thread dude? Stay on topic please. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1491	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:37:00 - [8] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: So you're telling me that the HMG is currently too hard to aim and kill with.... Furthermore, If I can get close enough to anyone with my HMG to shoot them with it, while they are wielding a RR or CR or ScrR or SR or any of the other various and sundry Light infantry weapons which are more than capable of cutting down even the most Brick tanked Heavy from 70 - 90 m away, then you, good sir, deserve to get shredded to bits. CR can only do that at proto, and thats at the minimum range listed ScR would be good if it didn't require 6 overheats to take a sentinel down at that range SR can't kill heavies. I don't know if that was a joke or what. AR? You're forgetting an entire rifle class Are you purposefully trying to derail my thread dude? Stay on topic please. How is this derailing? You're trying to argue with me, and I'm giving counterexamples about why you are wrong. If there really is a reticle problem, fix it. Ill have to test though. Currently the only weapon that needs a reticle rework is the SG. At Ops V, it doesn't even fill most of the reticle with the spread. I think the reduced spread is good, as it allows you to land more shots on target, but it needs to be toned down or the reticle reduced to compensate. ^^That is how you make a thread for something like this. Good job though including the video, though i believe it is irrelevant now. If you capture another, Im sure people would love to see it. Its derailing because you are just talking about how its so easy to use (insinuating anyone who uses the HMG has no skill) just like you did in your thread. You're more than entitled to your opinions, as am I to mine, this thread was never about "does the HMG kill too easy" or your butthurt over getting shredded by Heavies. This thread was about the previous problem with the HMG that was fully acknowledged by CCP, fixed, then reskinned and reimplemented for whatever reason. Your counter examples are bogus anyway. I have Proficiency 2 in ScrR and Heavies are no problem. SR (Sniper Rifles) Kill Heavies all day long dude! Do you even look at the kill feed. LOL Are you just trolling me? CR ok yea, you're right, not so much, but bring it in to 60 m and you have a melted heavy. The AR is also quite effective at stripping Heavies of flesh, though not quite so quickly at 70 m, but I did say "other...light infantry weapons...", leaving others free to add in their own favorite weapon for outranging the HMG. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1491	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:39:00 - [9] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: ^^That is how you make a thread for something like this. Good job though including the video, though i believe it is irrelevant now. If you capture another, Im sure people would love to see it. Oh, thank you for your expert lesson in making a very informative and expository thread on weapon target reticule mechanichs. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1494	Posted - 2014.07.16 13:54:00 - [10] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: ill do some testing and get a video up. though it may be an hour and a half before i get it up.. school run. he is indeed correct uploading video soon. i have done a simple test using the resupply depot. i will do further testing later but i have stuff to do right now. i will post the link soon the video is uploading then i have to run out. Thanks! If you need help with the testing HMU in game later on. I'll probably be on around 5 ish (US) Central Time "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*

Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1494	Posted - 2014.07.16 13:59:00 - [11] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: http://youtu.be/9gSNARTjkeI simple test further testing will be done later. i also didnt have the time to explain whats going on. Thanks! Not sure if you noticed, but as I suspected, no target info is displayed until the center dot of the reticule is touching the target. Then begins to fade after the center of the reticule leaves the target, though the "spray cone" outline ring still incorporates the Depot. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1494	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:01:00 - [12] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: boba's fetta wrote: ill do some testing and get a video up. though it may be an hour and a half before i get it up.. school run. he is indeed correct uploading video soon. i have done a simple test using the resupply depot. i will do further testing later but i have stuff to do right now. i will post the link soon the video is uploading then i have to run out. Thanks! If you need help with the testing HMU in game later on. I'll probably be on around 5 ish (US) Central Time i do require a willing victim to prove it isnt doing damage. as i cant prove it with a supply depot. what time eve time will you be on? (ill be back in 30 school run time) Probably around 2200 ish or 10:00 GMT "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1495	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:13:00 - [13] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Wait what? They gone back to the previous HMG mechanic where its laser accurate? Ok everybody time to get the assaults and scouts out and dance infront of a heavy again with a scrambler pistol. Fine, I'll just start running My Commando with a ScrR and ACR. Come at me bruh! "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1496	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:03:00 - [14] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Just ran a small test and this is NOT the case. Will have the raw feed up shortly and will see about getting an edited version up as well. Eh, Idk man, lets see that video. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1497	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:20:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I unfortunately do not have the ability to make a video of it. Maybe someone else from the community could lend a hand. I know Arkena Wyrnspire has a capture card, and he's in your corp so you should see if he wouldn't mind lending a hand. Decent guy he is. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1499	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:50:00 - [16] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: boba's fetta wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Just ran a small test and this is NOT the case. Will have the raw feed up shortly and will see about getting an edited version up as well. dont edit just post. we have seen evidence to suggest this is the case. if you have something that prove's it wrong we would like to see it. again my own testing isnt complete. Raw Test Video It is difficult to see since targeting info is not displayed but there was actually a couple of cases where it seemed to deliver more damage when not on center. We tested with basic HMG and basic assault HMG at multiple ranges. If anyone has a specific request on how to test it or would like to run their own test and just have me film for them feel free to drop me mail in game. Haa GTFO that video is not even recent. Dude seriously, the target reticule isn't even the same now lmmfao. Nice try, show me where the heavy touched you. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1499	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:16:00 - [17] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: deezy dabest wrote: boba's fetta wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Just ran a small test and this is NOT the case. Will have the raw feed up shortly and will see about getting an edited version up as well. dont edit just post. we have seen evidence to suggest this is the case. if you have something that prove's it wrong we would like to see it. again my own testing isnt complete. Raw Test Video It is difficult to see since targeting info is not displayed but there was actually a couple of cases where it seemed to deliver more damage when not on center. We tested with basic HMG and basic assault HMG at multiple ranges. If anyone has a specific request on how to test it or would like to run their own test and just have me film for them feel free to drop me mail in game. Haa GTFO that video is not even recent. Dude seriously, the target reticule isn't even the same now lmmfao. Nice try, show me where the heavy touched you. and this is why i wanted to see the raw unedited footage =) IKR lol I downloaded the video too, not saying he would go n take it down n replace it with a doctored version having the same title and description or anything, but he did upload a video of old gameplay footage trying to pass it off as legit. He must not have noticed I stated I was a Chromosome Vet. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1505	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:29:00 - [18] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: deezy dabest wrote: boba's fetta wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Just ran a small test and this is NOT the case. Will have the raw feed up shortly and will see about getting an edited version up as well. dont edit just post. we have seen evidence to suggest this is the case. if you have something that prove's it wrong we would like to see it. again my own testing isnt complete. Raw Test Video It is difficult to see since targeting info is not displayed but there was actually a couple of cases where it seemed to deliver more damage when not on center. We tested with basic HMG and basic assault HMG at multiple ranges. If anyone has a specific request on how to test it or would like to run their own test and just have me film for them feel free to drop me mail in game. Haa GTFO that video is not even recent. Dude seriously, the target reticule isn't even the same now lmmfao. Nice try, show me where the heavy touched you. ....Anything that contradicts you, no matter how well based in fact, is going to be attacked by you because you believe that abstractions that you conjure are concrete evidence. Your HMG is more than fine, and now you want it to be even easier to use? GTFO Lol no, I want the HMG to work as intended, and the damn animations to match! Right now, they don't, and that lame attempt to prove me wrong backfired. It isn't a recent video because the damn HMG reticule isn't even like that any longer lol. Am I the only one who sees that? SMH open your eyes man! "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1505	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:31:00 - [19] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: MassiveNine wrote: While he might have been wrong about the date of the video, Jaraiya is one of the few people who have fought reasonably tooth and nail for the heavy, and has provided proof and sources multiple times. If he says there is something wrong the hmg, there is. I dont care about the statement on the date of the video, I am more worried about the fact that he did not even know what the reticule looks like. No worries either way, mistakes happen. Wow, really. Are you ******* kidding me lol. You got ballz ill give you that. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1505	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:53:00 - [20] - Quote Mikey Ducati wrote: Master Jaraiya, I am completely appalled how some came to your thread with the nerf the heavy agenda. What you are talking about indeed happens. I played some matches today and yes, the little almost invisible dot has to be on target for the damage to register. Case in point, a mercenary hid behind a shoulder high wall. The ring of the reticule turned red when I acquired target, yet when firing, he received no damage. I expected a lil bit of damage to register because of projectile spread but none happened. When making sure the dot placed on his head, I noticed the spread still missed him only this time, I watched the trace round go directly into the dot and grant me a head shot kill. I wish could record it. I really need to invest in the capabilities anyway. This is something worth discussing. Is this due to the stun/slowdown effect that was used for better hit detection that was removed? I would like to get a dev's attention on this. No, they just rolled back a fix to the HMG sometime between 1.4 and Hotfix Bravo. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*

Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1506	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:36:00 - [21] - Quote HMG does work as intended, though they lowered the dispersion significantly since the end of Dec 2013. I still would like to see the reticule changed, and the animations for the dispersion toned down a bit. @ Gav, you were right, though, if you let aim assist track for you it makes a huge difference in the amount of rounds that land on its target. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1506	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:40:00 - [22] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: That was recorded after i read this thread. We are still online if you would like to come ask yourself. Drop me a line in game. Oh and I am currently streaming live as well. So yea....... definitely not recent at all. Good job on making yourself look like the forum troll you are. Seems to me there's a difference in the reticule's behavior between our video and yours. Care to retract lol? "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1506	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:28:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: So you're telling me that the HMG is currently too hard to aim and kill with.... I find it surprising too. I mean, with all due respect, im not an ''old school heavy'' well, at least not with HMG's, but i actually find myself DROPPING my Proto Gal scout in order to run around with heavies since its so easy for me to mow down 2-3-4+ enemies without problem with the HMG.... And i use the STD HMG with no dam mods nor prof... lol you guys and your egos "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1508	Posted - 2014.07.17 06:11:00 - [24] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: deezy dabest wrote: That was recorded after i read this thread. We are still online if you would like to come ask yourself. Drop me a line in game. Oh and I am currently streaming live as well. So yea....... definitely not recent at all. Good job on making yourself look like the forum troll you are. Seems to me there's a difference in the reticule's behavior between our video and yours. Care to retract lol? I am still live streaming right now with the exact same reticule. Feel free to drop in, I will be around for about another hour. http://www.twitch.tv/deezy_dabest Gaming Monitor? How are you changing the reticule? "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1508	Posted - 2014.07.17 06:37:00 - [25] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: deezy dabest wrote: That was recorded after i read this thread. We are still online if you would like to come ask yourself. Drop me a line in game. Oh and I am currently streaming live as well. So yea....... definitely not recent at all. Good job on making yourself look like the forum troll you are. Seems to me there's a difference in the reticule's behavior between our video and yours. Care to retract lol? I am still live streaming right now with the exact same reticule. Feel free to drop in, I will be around for about another hour. http://www.twitch.tv/deezy_dabest Gaming Monitor? How are you changing the reticule? no gaming monitor. I am playing through the AverTV HD DVR with some heavily adjusted display settings to get some things to show up better (like cloaks). I do not know what is making the reticule appear differently to you but obviously there are other people that feel mine does not look right either so I apologize for my earlier statement. Back on topic, I am still not seeing an issue with damage application. Can I ask what range you are testing at, what suit you are shooting, and which HMG you are using? I am interested in trying to find the issue you are pointing out. After testing, we discovered it is applying damage all the way out to the cone, just as is shown in your video, your reticule is different though lol. If you watch Our video you will see that there is an red crosshair that lights up when the center of the cone finds a target, "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*