DUST Search - Give Weapons more Life.

MrShooter01 wrote:

Ripley Riley wrote:

CCP's design philosophy is usually provide bonuses for certain fittings, not penalties. They would rather dangle a carrot in front of you to fit racial weaponry than beat you over the head with a club if you don't.

In EVE this translates to bonuses to weapons that are so substantial no skilled player would fit anything other than the proper racial weapons. "Hmm, instead of fitting a rack of autocannons on my Hurricane and taking advantage of its considerable 5% per level bonus to projectile turret rate of fire AND damage, maybe I should fit a bunch of medium beam lasers with no bonus that will suck my capacitor dry! Nobody will expect that!"

Really, it all depends on how you look at things. While it's all worded like a "bonus", to a hardcore player it might as well read "X% penalty to ship effectiveness per level when not equipping the correct weapon systems". Blink

I do actually like how you can fit a wide variety of racial weapons on any suit and still be effective in dust instead of being unable to do enough damage and having everyone go "HAHAHA he fit a scrambler rifle on a gallente suit what a hopeless scrub", but there should be SOME reason to use a race's weapons with their suits. Its kinda silly how the average amarr logi prefers a combat rifle or rail rifle over any laser weapon.

They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!

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Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4238	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:40:00 - [1] - Quote We are all encouraged, through Racial Dropsuit Bonuses, to impart racial purity in our fittings. Example: You get Bonuses to Caldari Weapons on Caldari Racial Dropsuits, Amarr Weapons get Bonuses via Amarr Dropsuits, etc. Why not also implement Deductions for mixing it up? Example: Gallente Weapons RoF reduced by 20% when paired with an Amarr Dropsuit, Amarr Weapons Overheat 20% faster on Caldari Frames, etc. You may now Discuss. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4954	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:49:00 - [2] - Quote Discouraging diversty is the single worst idea for a game like this. RIP Stinky Sleeve. RIP Dust514. See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 2163	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:51:00 - [3] - Quote CCP's design philosophy is usually provide bonuses for certain fittings, not penalties. They would rather dangle a carrot in front of you to fit racial weaponry than beat you over the head with a club if you don't. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4238	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:00:00 - [4] - Quote My intention wasn't to completely bork the weapons, just minor tweaks. I'm not trying to really discourage cross-racial usage, just give it a slight drawback. Racial trolling, of sorts. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 2164	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:03:00 - [5] - Quote Work the changes into the weapon stats themselves. For example, drop the Plasma Assault rifle damage by 10%. Then give all Gallente dropsuits a 10% bonus with Gallente weaponry. In the hands of a non-Gallente the rifle is weaker. Make sense? He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1029	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:17:00 - [6] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: We are all encouraged, through Racial Dropsuit Bonuses, to impart racial purity in our fittings. Example: You get Bonuses to Caldari Weapons on Caldari Racial Dropsuits, Amarr Weapons get Bonuses via Amarr Dropsuits, etc. Why not also implement Deductions for mixing it up? Example: Gallente Weapons RoF reduced by 20% when paired with an Amarr Dropsuit, Amarr Weapons Overheat 20% faster on Caldari Frames, etc. You may now Discuss. I've long supported the idea that using racial weapons and equipment on that race's suits should get a bonus. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4241	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:20:00 - [7] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Work the changes into the weapon stats themselves. For example, drop the Plasma Assault rifle damage by 10%. Then give all Gallente dropsuits a 10% bonus with Gallente weaponry. In the hands of a non-Gallente the rifle is weaker. Make sense? Yup. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Yokal Bob Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 544	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:26:00 - [8] - Quote Thats kind of difficult in the example of heavies, the hmg is minmitar, there are only 2 heavy weapons If its not anime, its not real
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 175	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:06:00 - [9] - Quote quote=Rynoceros]We are all encouraged, through Racial Dropsuit Bonuses, to impart racial purity in our fittings. Why not also implement Deductions for mixing it up? Example: Gallente Weapons RoF reduced by 20% when paired with an Amarr Dropsuit, Amarr Weapons Overheat 20% faster on Caldari Frames, etc. [/quote] I don't welcome REDUCING the generic effects of mix-fitting other races' gear on your race's suit. Like some of the other posts here noted, it would work against CCP's cardinal scheme that a player is encouraged to customize as much as possible (without actually stating it, they mean you're encouraged to cross-race your fittings as much as you like to). But Rynoceros, that doesn't mean I'm against your THINKING. It does make sense that, since the Lore timelines suggest that each one of our races evolved totally independently for eons before we ever jumped off our own planets and discovered another race, that Gallente tech dropsuit and PG/CPU interfacing wouldn't be freindly AT ALL to some foreign Amarr sidearms you try to plug-in and operate off your suit. You'd blow up (remember the film District-9? So Coool). So it WOULD make sense in the game if, when you try to operate a Caldari weapon on your Minmatar suit (because local Caldari mercs are pissing you off, and you want to be able to fry through their sheilds faster than your own Min projectile weaponry), the incompatiblility between the two races that oddly eats up your PG/CPU load more than your standard-race fittings,... so you can ultimately carry the Amarr weapon if you want, but have to take more of your nades or rechargers or dampners off your belt in order to do it. No CRAZY deductions,.... just enough to create another species of Dust player who "is willing to risk running around naked in order to fit the rare Emergo-blastron-gun that's really only meant for Caldari tech dropsuits" . ...If it brings even more Eve-Lore depth to Dust 514, you've got me automatically half-hooked on the idea... Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15859	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:11:00 - [10] - Quote Step in the very wrong direction. Should increase the synergy between like raced weapons and platforms CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 664	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:10:00 - [11] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP's design philosophy is usually provide bonuses for certain fittings, not penalties. They would rather dangle a carrot in front of you to fit racial weaponry than beat you over the head with a club if you don't. In EVE this translates to bonuses to weapons that are so substantial no skilled player would fit anything other than the proper racial weapons. "Hmm, instead of fitting a rack of autocannons on my Hurricane and taking advantage of its considerable 5% per level bonus to projectile turret rate of fire AND damage, maybe I should fit a bunch of medium beam lasers with no bonus that will suck my capacitor dry! Nobody will expect that!" Really, it all depends on how you look at things. While it's all worded like a "bonus", to a hardcore player it might as well read "X% penalty to ship effectiveness per level when not equipping the correct weapon systems". I do actually like how you can fit a wide variety of racial weapons on any suit and still be effective in dust instead of being unable to do enough damage and having everyone go "HAHAHA he fit a scrambler rifle on a gallente suit what a hopeless scrub", but there should be SOME reason to use a race's weapons with their suits. Its kinda silly how the average amarr logi prefers a combat rifle or rail rifle over any laser weapon.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3057	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:51:00 - [12] - Quote Firstly punishing is negative reinforcement, y are effectively saying to the player No, bad player, no thinking outsode the box, bad player Secondly we already reward players for racial parity, why would we further penalise someone for not doing this? You should never punish a player for something they can do, only reward them for something they should do! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11752	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:14:00 - [13] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Discouraging diversty is the single worst idea for a game like this. Its not discouraging diversity, its playing into established EVE concepts. A Tormentor is an Amarr Frigate and recieves Amarr Frigate skill bonus per level: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret capacitor use 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage It's doesn't discourage me from using autocannons on the ship, instead incentives the use of of Lasers so the ship fits its intended role. I more inclined to follow the Commando's and Assault suits model which applied a bonus to the weapons of their racial group to increase the weapons effectiveness....... Actually the more I think about it the more the suits already do this. Commando- Racial Weapons Damage Bonus Assaults (some of them)- Racial Weapons Utility Bonus Logi- Racial Equipment Bonus Scouts (Some)- Racial EWAR Bonus Sentinel- Racial Shield and Armour Bonus But in summary the OP is not wrong. Each suit should have bonuses that aid and represent its intended role by the faction it comes from. Until Pirate Suits are announced. "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10354	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:20:00 - [14] - Quote As much as I would enjoy seeing an Amarrian fail badly when trying to use a Combat Rifle, I'd rather see players encouraged for using their racial weaponry than punished for conforming to their personal preference. Not to mention that this would be terrible for AV weapons, considering how we only have 3 (two of which, belong to the same race). Long Live The Anime Empire "You know what? You really, REALLY, like to dampen the mood" - Lea Silencio -HAND
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1273	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:22:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Step in the very wrong direction. Should increase the synergy between like raced weapons and platforms And I would say the Amarr Assault does this perfectly. What others are in a similar vein? I guess the Minmatar Assault? The Struggle is most certainly real. MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!"
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2445	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:26:00 - [16] - Quote I think NKs and Minjas are a match made in Heaven. Stop being racist. This is how a minja feels
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 47	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:39:00 - [17] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: My intention wasn't to completely bork the weapons, just minor tweaks. I'm not trying to really discourage cross-racial usage, just give it a slight drawback. Racial trolling, of sorts. trolling is the worst possible reason to do anything. No, I think everyone else is right. In a game that promised to be an open- sand box shooter, more diversity is needed. I can understand why some combinations work better than others, especially racial synergy, but there should be no drawbacks if you decide to do things your own way.
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 108	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:49:00 - [18] - Quote how about not the equipment themselves, but the character. Lets say you skill quicker into equipment that is aligned to your race, while skilling into other race's gear will be a tad bit longer. let us transfer our BPOs,stats,gear,ISK and SP to legion pl0x! Try and steal my BPOs. I dare ya. AMARRIAN4LYFE
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11753	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:00:00 - [19] - Quote tander09 wrote: how about not the equipment themselves, but the character. Lets say you skill quicker into equipment that is aligned to your race, while skilling into other race's gear will be a tad bit longer. Characters racial status has nothing to do with their capacity to learn. "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11753	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:01:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: As much as I would enjoy seeing an Amarrian fail badly when trying to use a Combat Rifle, I'd rather see players encouraged for using their racial weaponry than punished for conforming to their personal preference. Not to mention that this would be terrible for AV weapons, considering how we only have 3 (two of which, belong to the same race). It's not being punished. You can still use the weapon to 100% of its natural efficiency with the skills. However the platform on which you choose to use that weapon further modifies it. E.G I have a Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, and Plasma Rifle on an Amarr Assault with Amarr Assault V. Combat Rifle and Plasma Rifle still operate to 100% efficiency when I have all skills While the Scrambler Rifle operates to 110% efficiency when I have all skills. You are never penalised for using different racial tech only encourages to use the tech designed to be used by the suits creator. Amarr make Laser Platforms simple as that. They may use all forms of technology from projectile weapons to plasma weapons but their fundamental design philosophy is Armour and Lasers. "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon

Justice Prevails 281	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:43:00 - [21] - Quote Kind of already have this for the commando suits. My rail rifle which I have a prof 5(15% damage increase) also gets another 10% damage increase because my Calmando suit skill is at level 5. I do fit swarms(prof 5) and the AR(prof 5) on it. But in the back of my head I know that I'm not getting those weapons' full potential unless I skill into the appropriate suits for them. But to change it for all suits at this stage would probably warrant a respec. Edit: Then again, as long anyone wasn't penalized, a respec would not be needed. It would just encourage skilling into your racial weapons for a bonus. But what happens to my commando bonus? Does it stay as is? Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1260	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:05:00 - [22] - Quote Yokal Bob wrote: Thats kind of difficult in the example of heavies, the hmg is minmitar, there are only 2 heavy weapons Good, min get a gank bonus Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4975	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:47:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Discouraging diversty is the single worst idea for a game like this. Its not discouraging diversity, its playing into established EVE concepts. Those established EVE concepts discourage diversity too. RIP Stinky Sleeve. RIP Dust514. See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1494	Posted - 2014.07.11 10:03:00 - [24] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP's design philosophy is usually provide bonuses for certain fittings, not penalties. They would rather dangle a carrot in front of you to fit racial weaponry than beat you over the head with a club if you don't. on the other hand, if we had penalties for using cross race weapons the whole imbalance with the combat rifle wouldnt be a problem.
Doctor Day Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 315	Posted - 2014.07.11 10:13:00 - [25] - Quote I want my HMG to meow if you are going to give weapons more life.....
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3059	Posted - 2014.07.11 11:50:00 - [26] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP's design philosophy is usually provide bonuses for certain fittings, not penalties. They would rather dangle a carrot in front of you to fit racial weaponry than beat you over the head with a club if you don't. In EVE this translates to bonuses to weapons that are so substantial no skilled player would fit anything other than the proper racial weapons. "Hmm, instead of fitting a rack of autocannons on my Hurricane and taking advantage of its considerable 5% per level bonus to projectile turret rate of fire AND damage, maybe I should fit a bunch of medium beam lasers with no bonus that will suck my capacitor dry! Nobody will expect that!" Really, it all depends on how you look at things. While it's all worded like a "bonus", to a hardcore player it might as well read "X% penalty to ship effectiveness per level when not equipping the correct weapon systems". I do actually like how you can fit a wide variety of racial weapons on any suit and still be effective in dust instead of being unable to do enough damage and having everyone go "HAHAHA he fit a scrambler rifle on a gallente suit what a hopeless scrub", but there should be SOME reason to use a race's weapons with their suits. Its kinda silly how the average amarr logi prefers a combat rifle or rail rifle over any laser weapon. Well the Amarr assaults have their bonus to Heat Build up (God Save to those who can't aim) But that is because they are assaults, it is the staple of their class. Amarr Logis have bonuses to uplinks, which is equipment and that is the staple of the class. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1133	Posted - 2014.07.11 14:07:00 - [27] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: We are all encouraged, through Racial Dropsuit Bonuses, to impart racial purity in our fittings. Example: You get Bonuses to Caldari Weapons on Caldari Racial Dropsuits, Amarr Weapons get Bonuses via Amarr Dropsuits, etc. Why not also implement Deductions for mixing it up? Example: Gallente Weapons RoF reduced by 20% when paired with an Amarr Dropsuit, Amarr Weapons Overheat 20% faster on Caldari Frames, etc. You may now Discuss. The racial combo bonuses dullens the field enough as it is. If the bonus is significant by any measure, (and not being significant enough hardly isn't purpose of any skill, is it?) It makes no sense to use said weapon on any other suit. Why is that? Because all weapons have to be balanced and the strongest version dictates the level each wep is measured against each other. *Now that you mention deductions, contrary to my initial reactions, I actually like* them better than bonuses.** Bonus on one specific combo: "that's the winning way, don't use anything else" Deduction on specific suit combo: "Okay the weapon can be used on wide variety of suits but just not on this one" Deduction would be in order if one platform (suit) would be deemed too advantegeous using the said wep. (imaginary example: blast radius weapon which couldn't be used in close quarters without killing the wielder - but with extremely high resist suit it could be fired on own feet killing everything else but the user) :-S
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1133	Posted - 2014.07.11 14:26:00 - [28] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Discouraging diversty is the single worst idea for a game like this. Its not discouraging diversity, its playing into established EVE concepts. A Tormentor is an Amarr Frigate and recieves Amarr Frigate skill bonus per level: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret capacitor use 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage It's doesn't discourage me from using autocannons on the ship, instead incentives the use of of Lasers so the ship fits its intended role. I more inclined to follow the Commando's and Assault suits model which applied a bonus to the weapons of their racial group to increase the weapons effectiveness....... Actually the more I think about it the more the suits already do this. Commando- Racial Weapons Damage Bonus Assaults (some of them)- Racial Weapons Utility Bonus Logi- Racial Equipment Bonus Scouts (Some)- Racial EWAR Bonus Sentinel- Racial Shield and Armour Bonus But in summary the OP is not wrong. Each suit should have bonuses that aid and represent its intended role by the faction it comes from. Until Pirate Suits are announced. Coming from an Eve player, Just forget about Eve style. Dust style could be so much better. :-S
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1925	Posted - 2014.07.11 14:59:00 - [29] - Quote I would be much more supportive for a bonus to gear that increases based on how "racially pure" (does that sound bad? don't care, woke up drunk) you make your suit. Makes much more sense to incentivise fitting to your role than to penalize not doing so. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 16	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:04:00 - [30] - Quote I find this idea limits a players freedom, not just physically, but half mentally as well, as most people will want the most out of their bonuses, even if it means not using their preferred weapon. For example me: I have a fully speced cal assault, yet my perferred light weapon is the AR, though the (quite unintelligent) bonus the caldari gets is to rail rifles, which, though the skill might be useless, it still used to deter me from using the AR, as I invested a lot of SP into the assualt suit, which would be viewed as a waste if I did not use a RR. But I don't care about what the game say, I just play how I wanna play (It's true because it rhymes) ScP = GÖÑ



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