Pre 1.7 logis were the rage because assaults were no good, now scouts and heavies are the rage for the same reason. They do the same job as assaults, but better, and with the additional advantages of the other class. Strangely, by CCP logic, the answer to both scenarios is to nerf logis.

Right, we the logistics players only have the one light weapon. We are back-up not meant for frontline killing. I will ask people to do one thing. Spend all of your skill points into a logistics fit and tell me me how we are slayers. Also try to be an actual LogiBro. I will tell you right now it is not easy.

Instead of removing the sidearm from the amarr logi, why not give the gallente a sidearm too? I see both of these logi's in more of a toolbox role compared to the other two, and having a sidearm on them would give each side of the war a unique fighter style logistics role.

It's a tough call, but what is the Amarr logi's strength once the uplinks are down? Them having some teeth outside of their seemingly temporary logistics role gives mercs another secondary role after their job is done. They're still outclassed by assaults and commandos, even with the sidearm.

One of the concepts I wanted to explore further with you guys is extended bonus beyond the primary racial equipment choice.

Several of us have mentioned it and i think it has a lot of merit if handled well. Any thoughts on proposals for how this might shake out?

Off the top of my head I was thinking something along the ideas of this:

Cal Logi
1) keeps current hive bonus (add increased effect for needles for Cal suits)
2) 2% decrease in spawn times from droplinks per level
3) 2% increase in rep tool range per level
4) 5% increase in range of active scanner per level

Gal Logi
1) Keeps current active scanner bonus
2) 1x additional spawn per level for drop links
3) 2% increase in rep tool effectiveness per level
4) 5% increase in nanite reservoir in hives per level

Min Logi
1) Keeps current rep tool bonus
2) 5% increased in dmg and blast radius of REs per level
3) 2% increase in nanite replenishment rate in hives per level
4) 2% decrease in spawn times from drop links per level

Amarr Logi
1) Keeps current drop link bonus
2) 5% increase in rep tool effectiveness
3) 2% increase in damage / blast radius for REs
4) 2% increase in nanite replenishment rate per level

+1

Though I would hold off on any remote bonuses or proxy mine bonuses for the moment.

Hey here is a proposal! after using small Rail gun turrets i have this to say... just like the Rail Rifle some shots taht you shoot do no register just like the rail rifle at one point I propose a fix for that and a new reticle for the weapon as well.

I have an idea, but I don't know if you can do it server side only ...

Fill ONE of each Race's Logi Equipment slots with whatever YELLOW BPO Equipment (Similar to Starter Fit Yellow Modules) their Race is Bonused in:

Amarr - Uplink
Caldari - Nanohive
Gallente - Scanner
Minmatar - Rep Tool

Make these Yellow BPO Equipment Modules the same Tier as the Logi Suit:

STD Logi gets STD Yellow Module
ADV Logi gets ADV Yellow Module
PRO Logi gets PRO Yellow Module

It's only one Equip slot, the others will still be empty for CPU/PG versatility

This would allow you to maintain the higher CPU/PG required to Fit Logi Suits but would limit the ability of players to leave the Equipment slots empty and use the extra CPU/PG to build 'Slayer Logi's' (one Equip slot would always have something in it)

It would also encourage players to use the equipment that the suit is bonused for, as it will be automatically fitted (like Starter Fittings).

Players will still have the ability to cover the Yellow Module with a different or higher tier module so versatility isn't affected.

I may be wrong but i do recall a dev saying about any propositions ;P

@Pokey Dravon

so let me get this straight.....

you want logis to have more reduction to equipment pg/cpu bonus?

for what reason?

so that a logi can now carry 2 different reping hives as well as 2 ammo hives, and on top of that be able fit high end shield and armor mods?

ummmmm............we had that already.......remember.........it was called 1.? ( forget which patch number it was ).................when it was impossible to kill a loge even with a point blank hmg

If they reduced the base cpu/pg of the logi suits then i would agree 100%, that would be a great idea. But since logi's have huge cpu/pg resources especially with the cpu/pg passive skills, giving them even lower equipment reduction bonus would be a bad thing.

Also think about how much cloaked scouts are a problem, now add in logis that can abuse cloaks as well. Since cloaks are equipment the cpu/pg would be greatly reduced for that as well.

To be honest anything you do to a logi will leave people the option to use it as a slayer instead of a support, and i think CCP is trying to get logi's to be more of a supportive role as they were intended to be.

You idea is pretty sharp and perhaps the cleaner version. I was trying to maintain some distinct flavor for each logi and keep them distinct from each other...i also didn't want to lean too close to the "OP Line".

That said, I do like generally idea you are countering with...question (and I hate to ask) is your option a little too much of a buff? that's he only downside I see to your option.

Also...I am firmly in the camp that REs must be treated as equipment and not a weapon option. Giving logo's the bonus for RE's is a pretty legit idea. I would also tag them for equipment CPU/PG reduction like all other equipment.

Include something about profile triggers, please.

What I mean by profile triggers is this:

If enemy & within X meters & scan profile >Y, Prox goes boom
Y = Profile Trigger

Just in case you were wondering what I meant by that.

If this were to be included, Prox could act as not only AV mines, but also as AP mines.

Good work, Pokey.

I really do think that REs need to be in the mix for Equipment.

I'll open myself up to some hate face but if you don't treat REs like equipment to incentives usage by logi suits then make the RE an option in the grenade slot - you have to choose one or the other.

The RE fits in an equipment slot but is skilled from the Weapons skill tree (same one as Grenades). I think the distinction needs to be made.

I looked at the spreadsheet again and scrolled a little further right and noticed you intend to give those bonuses to the assault suits too. Your idea is more to reinforce the tanking style of each race and less about survivability of any specific suit type. I like that a lot actually... would this 'racial bonus' extend to all suits of a particular racial type? Possibly with lower values... 2% for lights, 5% for mediums, and 8-10% for heavies perhaps?

I could see a pretty convincing argument that logi base stats could be bumped up to (or close to) assault levels to help increase their survivability, especially if we normalize the slot layout between the two classes.

As to the comment on that... would it make more sense to make the Minmatar base recharge delay lower while giving them a recharger module bonus?

I do, personally, believe that Caldari would be very viable if they returned to a buffer tank type with an extender bonus. This reinforces that they perfer longer range engagements where shield hp is preferred somewhat over recharge rate?

Rep bonus on Gallente.. check - 100% agreed.

Armor plate speed penalty may not be that viable for an already terribly slow set of suits for Amarr... would an Armor plate value bonus make more sense? I always felt that Amarr are the EHP kings, slow but massive buffer tanks...

Looks like I fell way behind on this discussion. RL strikes again.

My quick 2 cents:

1) We have to strictly avoid any offensive bonuses for logi suits. A sidearm, in and of itself, is a sufficient "bonus" to make an Amarr logi suit more combat-oriented than the others, all else being equal. Survivability bonuses are maybe a little different, but as we saw with the old cal logi bonus or the global inherent armor reps, supposedly "defensive" bonuses will often be highly desirable to slayers.

2) Any thoughts on my proposal of a small global logi bonus? I totally agree with zdub that pokey's proposal really makes the non-minmatar logi's even more obsolete, but if you made the additional bonuses small, what you really accomplish is making all the logi suits more desirable for support-oriented players than scout suits currently are.

"By projecting a focused harmonic beam into damaged materials, the repair tool channels construction nanites to return the targeted matter to its original state. Its on-board processor interfaces with a forward-facing sensor suite, instantly recognizing vehicles, devices, and personal armour based on microscopic manufacturer's tags. The beam, a bi-channel GÇ£hollow laserGÇ¥, simultaneously acts as both a containment field and transport medium for the nanite swarm, which works to sift unwanted particles from the structure, undo ionization, and reconstruct the atomic patterns of the material.

The repair tool has several design innovations, the most surprising probably being the incorporation of Amarr focusing crystal technology. Beyond that, the device also makes use of an advanced K7 nano static co-processor on par with Caldari planet side missile tracking systems and a 55x5 reverse current power cell configuration rarely used beyond self-sustaining Gallente drone units. The result is an elegant tool combining the best technology from several very different design philosophies."

The common logi bonus using the rep tool probably would work better.

I actually think your idea of combat logi and support logi still works though. I run a Cal Logi as a full support logibro primarily and do see a lot of uses for the CQC sidearm...i'm just a little leery of giving up too much to simply secure a sidearm.

Why would it be a deal breaker if the Amarr Logi were to be brought into line with the other Logi suits while getting a different though equivalent bonus to the others?

I am just curious, personally, I don't see it as being a real Logi, it is the "Not-Assault Assault" IMHO

That seems a little better balanced. It encourages all logis to fit & use a rep tool while giving them a specific racial bonus.

The only thing I honestly don't like is the RE bonus for minmatar, what sort of bonus would you give ?

Had you considered the Minnie bonus to be for the nanite injector, my reasoning being that as a race they are the ultimate recyclers so no clone goes to waste & is brought back to life to be put back to use.

Holy crap, it's a Checkmate sighting!


Anyway, I found it. Actually only about 6 months old, it was an interesting read going back through those old threads from pre 1.7 to 1.8. A couple people pretty accurately predicted the rise of scouts and the death of medium frames, even before the final patch notes for 1.8.

So, the bottom line is this: If you are seriously that concerned that logi's are going to infringe on the assault role (while inexplicably ignoring the massive contribution 1.8-era scouts made to the death of the assault), just go forward with another CPU/PG decrease and simultaneously increase the fitting bonus to equipment.

Done properly, you should be able to make essentially the same exact support-oriented fitting you can now, but be very much hampered trying to make an offensively-minded logi fitting, as in the example I linked.