Any more smart ideas that we can slot in?

How about NOT NERFING INJIECTORS WP?

I was there when injectors were 40wp/revive and NOONE used them.

At 25/50 wp? Being revived will be as rare as a miracle.

An assist will give you the same wp as a revive, without needing to get yourself in danger/waste a equip slot/pg-cpu.

With scouts having almost the same equip, better stealth, hp and speed and injectors having crap rewards logi will go extint.

Have fun being drowned by people lamenting noone revive them.

You've got an interesting approach going on there Jay, let me brainstorm a bit on it. So below I've listed some of the most obvious choices for equipment and pointed out that each could get a bonus to 2 attributes.

Repair Tool: Range & Rate
Scanner: Range & Precision
Hive: Rate & Capacity
Uplinks: Rate & Capacity
Remotes/Mines: Damage & Radius

What if the suit got both bonuses for its racial equipment (Which would be what they have now) and then the full bonus for all others, but only on one of the two attributes. So for example:
CalLogi
+% To Capacity & Replenish/Repair Rate of Nanohives
+% Precision of Scanners
+% Range of Repair Tools
+% Capacity of Uplinks

I'm also a personal fan of giving all Logi's fully bonuses to Remotes/Mines, I think its an interesting and fun mechanic to make the Logi's have their own form of AV but also be kind of the Tactician class by making traps and whatnot.

+1

Though I would hold off on any remote bonuses or proxy mine bonuses for the moment.

Finally I would like to make a recommendation to CCP regarding Logistics. I think it is about time you gave the shield tanking bros a way to benefit from Logi besides Nanohives and revives. I would like to see some kind of shield transporting equipment. This coming from a Logibro who feels bad that he can't keep shield tanking teammates alive for long after they hit armor, and someone who plays a Caldari Heavy on occasion. Yes its nice having a logi bro rep me as I clear a room, and it has saved me occasionally. However, more often than not, I don't have enough reps on my armor to survive.
.

Yeah, RedBleach LeSanglant is a good choice, if only for his excellent primer The Logi Code.

I'm not exactly "varsity level", but I've been around the block a few times in my Amarr logi (major topic of the day, obviously) and I'd volunteer if I weren't working this weekend.

So, I'd nominate Mortedeamor since she rocks the Amarr logi as well as anyone.

(The other usual suspects would be CCL, Shayz, maybe RedBleach?)

Entirely possible that it may be too much of an equipment buff, like I stated before I'd prefer each logi get full bonuses for 2 pieces of equipment, rather than a sweeping reduced bonus for all equipment. This is primarily because I think it makes them feel more unique from one another, rather than slightly better than the others at a particular equipment.

LEAVE. THE. LOGI. ALONE

There is no reason at all why they should be changed, unless it's to give the Amarr more CPU/PG. I demand a suit respec if Logis only can have Sidearms, and why nerf our speed? Do you realize that putting armor plates makes us slow enough?!

The cloak: haha lol I saw a Min Logi do that. Guess what, he died by a Militia Locus Grenade. The Cloak Logi is fine.

Just....focus on ANY other thing in the game...Please don't nerf me. Please? There aren't any slayer Logis anymore. If you die by a Logi and I out strafe your LW and sidearm, you got issues bro.

Furthermore, I kill because I have proficiency, you know, the thing Logis invest in, as well as Rapid Reload.

Slayer Logis exist when we put Core Focused Reps on each other. And Amarr Logis definitely are not the ones slaying these days.

Stay away from my logi, I'm begging you CCP

Only change I saw that I would make was the reduction to CPU/PG for Light/Sidearm weapons.

If it were up to me solely (which I know it isn't), I'd tie that to their racial weapons, they would still be able to fit other weapons, they'd just be less advantageously fitted than they would be if they fitted their racial weapons.

Here's a rough preliminary document we can use as a starting point:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing

Here are links to everything i've posted on the subject. While my suggestions are certainly not the only path we can take to finding balance between the different racial logistics suits, I hope my concerns have sparked enough discussion for people to get an idea of how fragile the equipment based nature of the logistics really is.

I have some serious concerns that we could find ourselves back in a situation where there is only one 'viable' logistics suit and the other 3 are purely for flavor/RP... I really don't want to see us fall back into that situation (Cal Logi, pre 1.4 anybody?)

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2250052#post2250052

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2251431#post2251431

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2253127#post2253127

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2253147#post2253147

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2253428#post2253428

Here are links to everything i've posted on the subject. While my suggestions are certainly not the only path we can take to finding balance between the different racial logistics suits, I hope my concerns have sparked enough discussion for people to get an idea of how fragile the equipment based nature of the logistics really is.

.....

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2251431#post2251431

What if you had a light weapon slot on a logi, but the suits were bonused fairly heavily with sidearm bonuses?

I hate the idea of sidearm only, but I think the slayer logi thing is such a sticking point for many. The logi suits aren't being used as slayer platforms anymore by competitive players but maybe something like this opens up the possibility of rational talk about logi suits by the masses.

hm...

So for the first question.. I might be a little confused on the question but here are my thoughts on it:

Base stats for each suit already relatively define the speed and hp profile you should expect from each suit. The Logistics suits themselves have always favored buffer specifically because of their relatively low regen rates and move speed. You can't play a logi like a scout, you can't move/strafe as fast as a scout and you don't benefit from the increased base regeneration. These are the kinds of traits that define the capabilities of each class. A combat focused logi should always remain less capable in combat than a true combat centric class.

Just like EVE, I don't necessarily believe that shield users should automatically be faster just because they use shields, but the nature of shields in Dust requires that you have to rely on your regeneration somewhat if you want to play on an equal field to armor based suits. This is a tough discussion in its own right, and i'm not sure it necessarily defines the logistics discussion.

I will say this though... and you've probably already figured it out from my posts. If we normalize the capabilities of each logistics suit in terms of racial bonuses, then the most desired and viable logistics suit will almost automatically be defined by the state of armor/shield balance. As the current meta remains armor focused, I feel the Gallente suit will remain the most combat capable logistics suit, should they all be changed to have no sidearm.

I do believe it makes more sense to have a shield focused and armor focused suit for each 'role' in the logistics field, which in line with the current meta. The Caldari remains a shield focused combat logi while the Min remains a shield focused support logi. The same thoughts apply to the Amarr and Gallente respectively.

and for the second question:

Absolutely not, the combat logi role I propose should never have a combat focused bonus. The combat logi is acting as a hybrid, and should absolutely pay the hybrid price for it. Logistics suits should always have logistics bonuses, the combat logi should still remain a logistics focused suit, just with more combat potential than a true 4 equip logistics. The price you pay for playing combat logi over, say, an assault or scout is that you receive no bonus for the combat focus of the play style. This is how you balance the 'Slayer Logi' problem.

I hope that answers some of your thoughts.

Being able to carry a sidearm where the proto fits like an ADV and gets a bigger clip or something. Giving you the further ability to fit a better tank while carrying proto equipment.

I'm not saying I like it, but gimping the module slots on the logi suit just seems like a terrible idea (not saying that's what you are proposing, just looking at other proposals). It's too damn expensive to carry 4 pieces of proto equipment on a glass cannon.

Add visual identifier for the repairee that they are being repped.

Just had a thought, I remembered an interesting tidbit of information about the description of the Repair Tool and looked it up.



We've all assumed that the Repair Tool, being Minmatar, should be tied to the Minmatar suit. However if you want to play with the lore a bit, it's actually really tied to all 4 races. Now the reason the Minmatar Logi is considered the most useful in PC is because of the repair tool bonus. That being said, lets consider giving that bonus to all Logis as part of the role bonus, and replacing the current Minmatar bonus with the remote bonus I had mentioned before.

So now all 4 Logis have the most popular bonus, and thus the choice comes down to personal playstyle based off of the racial role. Now we can stop there or we can add in a secondary bonus, thus giving each Logi 3 equipment they're proficient in. I've outlined these two options in the spreadsheet. Keep in mind for the Dual Bonus option, I just picked arbitrary pairs and are loosely based off racial themes when possible, so the pairs themselves are negotiable.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing

J
.....We've all assumed that the Repair Tool, being Minmatar, should be tied to the Minmatar suit. However if you want to play with the lore a bit, it's actually really tied to all 4 races....

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing

Althought that would be interesting from a lore standpoint, it would probably be better to keep a some sort of role bonus like reps very similar. Maybe vary 1% either way, but making it a 'Logistics' Bonus would possibly be the correct option.

A global repair bonus for logis would definitely change a lot of what I'm discussing. I still like the idea of having two logis with a sidearm and two without, but that is because i've always really enjoying playing that kind of combat logi. Just enough equipment to support the squad with enough combat potency to keep up.

That is a general problem with std suits in general imo. We really need to push CCP to buff the slot count on STD/ADV suits to help decrease the currently incredible combat potential differences that exists between the tiers of dropsuits.

[quote=Pokey Dravon][quote=Jaysyn Larrisen][quote=ZDub 303]


I would be curious to get both of your guy's opinion on this.

If we can run a shield transporter tool, then I could see a strong case for giving that to Caldari Logi suits. Then... for far more variety we go back to Logi Bro's suggestion and completely split this whole combat logi idea into separate types (i and II) of suits. We could make it look something like this perhaps (a modification of Pokey's spreadsheet):

I've copied what I think is Pokey's current line of racial bonuses, I don't agree with them as I still believe Logi's should focus on pure HP and while assault suits should prefer regen but I include them for completeness.

I still believe we need about a 50% reduction to the ISK cost of proto level equipment. With it costing so little, I think the Medic type suits lacking a bonus wouldn't matter as much, as they could easily fit proto nanohives which do quite well without a bonus imo.

As you can see, I'm trying to keep the number of bonuses a suit gets as low as possible to prevent buggy code and general implementation issues that we see a lot with suit bonuses.

Comments?

That seems a little better balanced. It encourages all logis to fit & use a rep tool while giving them a specific racial bonus.

The only thing I honestly don't like is the RE bonus for minmatar, what sort of bonus would you give ?