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aaaasdff ertgfdd
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Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Falloff Damage to hamper effectiveness in CQC is being considered by CCP. Source: CCP Rattati wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:I still think that the rail rifle should have an effect similar to the laser rifle's close up reduced damage, as it's suppose to be a long range weapon, but is still ludicrously good at CQC due to it's damage output. That's exactly what I wrote in my notes not 2 hours ago.
Thats ridiculous, if they do that it will never be used. Its rail tech damage doesmt fall off up close. You give it more charge up time, a smaller clip, less amo overall. Something like that, if you make the damage magically fall off in cqc the weapon will be useless. Bc of the slow rate of fire its not that great in cqc compared to the cr for sure, id say for anyone who can strafe its not that good vs a plasma rifle either. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
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Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
IVIaster LUKE wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:RR is already very weak in CQC. It gets destroyed by ARs, CRs and ScRs, as it should.
It's not just the DPS (though that is a lot lower than the other rifles), it's also the charge time and low rate of fire, which makes application of theoretical DPS much harder at close range. Nerf its close range effectiveness any further and it will be strictly for camping roofs and outskirts, no run-and-gun allowed. This killer gets it. +1000
I couldn't agree more. Whats more is that at this weapons release it was touted as having great hip fire accuracy. Why do you think that is? For CQC,, just because this weapon has the longest range doesnt mean it shouldn't work well at cqc. This weapon has weaknesses built right into it, with a charge up time, small clip size, and slow fire rate. These need to be altered to make the weapon less effective IF anything, not some new magical fall off damage. Link to the blog showing description of this rifle upon release, and the fact that its supposed to be good at hipfire for cqc. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Atiim wrote:Falloff Damage to hamper effectiveness in CQC is being considered by CCP. Source: CCP Rattati wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:I still think that the rail rifle should have an effect similar to the laser rifle's close up reduced damage, as it's suppose to be a long range weapon, but is still ludicrously good at CQC due to it's damage output. That's exactly what I wrote in my notes not 2 hours ago. Thats ridiculous, if they do that it will never be used. Its rail tech damage doesmt fall off up close. You give it more charge up time, a smaller clip, less amo overall. Something like that, if you make the damage magically fall off in cqc the weapon will be useless. Bc of the slow rate of fire its not that great in cqc compared to the cr for sure, id say for anyone who can strafe its not that good vs a plasma rifle either. Then how come I can do just fine with it in cqc... keeping the hipfire reticule on them is fairly easy. Increasing the charge up time would do nothing, reducing the magazine size is pointless, and why even bother with ammo capacity? I think what everyone is freaking out about is the actual range of where it 'magically fall off". I only said that it should be similar, not exact to the laser rifle. The laser is surprisingly good at close range, I've killed plenty of people with it.
I was going to engage this discussion, but after this last statement of charge up time and clip size doesnt matter, as if those are not huge factors in cqc you are an idiot. And your answer is because it is supposed to have great hipfire accuracy. The Laser was designed to work that way from the beginning, because it is a laser. You want to introduce an entirely new mechanical weakness into a weapon that was not designed for that in order to reduce cqc effectiveness. Yes you can get kills with it but vs an experienced CR user you will lose more often then not. This idea to just make up new mechanics for a gun is just dumb. It would be like saying well the more long range weapons need reverse damage fall off, well what about all the other rifles? Why dont we make the scrambler do less damage as you get closer? Or the plasma rifle? Or the combat rifle? Anyone who gets closer to a, target then their optimal range limit should have damage fall off. Its just dumb. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:[quote=aaaasdff ertgfdd][quote=Atiim]
Then how come I can do just fine with it in cqc... keeping the hipfire reticule on them is fairly easy. Increasing the charge up time would do nothing, reducing the magazine size is pointless, and why even bother with ammo capacity? I think what everyone is freaking out about is the actual range of where it 'magically fall off". I only said that it should be similar, not exact to the laser rifle. The laser is surprisingly good at close range, I've killed plenty of people with it. what some people are actually complaining about is they are running around out in the middle of a field like a fool and they get gunned down by a rail rifle at range so they cry nerf to be able to run around like a fool again. i no longer use the gun because of the last nerf they did to it even tho its the gun my assault suit gets a bonus to. I couldnt agree more, I stopped using it mainly becausemI thought the last nerf was so bad, Im doing cr, scram, and Duvolle again since the buff, sometimes I still get it out on Manus Peak, thats about it. I thought it sucked now, but damn nerf it really? Maybe its this event and new dudes are getting hammered with alot of Kals IDK, but I'm definitely out of the loop on this one.
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 21:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not...
No, you are wromg. It has many weaknesses. It has a small clip size now. It has a charge up time, you can say it doesnt matter but vs other guns its there and its not there with the other guns, so it matters. It has a slow rate of fire. These are the three weaknesses built into the gun, according to ccp perhaps you should read their blog. Where they also say the weapon should be very accurate at cqc. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
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Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:IVIaster LUKE wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Headline reads: "Long range weapon kills people from long range, QQ ensues."
Again, OP, why don't you ever post on your main? Did you even read what I wrote? I suggested less damage up close or more recoil to make it more difficult to use in CQC, I am fine with it doing well at long range. Im using an alt because my main is banned. How are you going to induce more recoil in CQC without nerfing long range effectiveness? How will the Rail Rifle be able to tell a CQC target from a Long Range target, when you engage? Fine lets scrap the recoil idea. The rail rifle will just have reduced damage from say, 0-10 meters. It will then steadily increase until it does maximum damage at its optimal.
Dumbest thing ive ever heard, why not do that with all the guns. And news flash 0 to 10 meters is part ofcits optimal now you noob. Why not just say that with a scrambler rifle? As you get closer it does less? This is the dumbest thing someone has ever suggested in Dust. You are just going to build a new mechanic into the gun that goes against rail tech and what this guns purpose is. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not...
This dude just said the weapon has no weakness bc it kills in its optimal range. Its optimal is the same as any other gun you idiot accept the rails is simply longer. So rail guns on tanks and vehicles would do less the closer you got as well? |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not... This dude just said the weapon has no weakness bc it kills in its optimal range. Its optimal is the same as any other gun you idiot accept the rails is simply longer. So rail guns on tanks and vehicles would do less the closer you got as well? If it does very similar dps to other weapons but is better across more ranges, then why would anyone use another weapon?
Its rail based, that means it has a +10 to armor and -10 to shields, the combat rifle is better its a +10 -5, the rail has slow fire rate which makes it more difficult to use vs higher rate of fire at cqc such as a crd9 or duvolle, especially vs fast moving scouts. It has a smaller clip size vs the other weapons. It has a pre charge which makes it slower to start firing at cqc and thats important. The rail has many many weakness built into it and frankly, I rarely die to it in cqc. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not... This dude just said the weapon has no weakness bc it kills in its optimal range. Its optimal is the same as any other gun you idiot accept the rails is simply longer. So rail guns on tanks and vehicles would do less the closer you got as well? You have no concept of ranges or balance... do you? Balance suggests that a long range weapon should be only good at long range, yet it's good up close as well, which isn't balanced; therefore it has no weakness.
You are just wrong. The problem is YOU do not understand those weaknesses. I have stated them many times, read them. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not... This dude just said the weapon has no weakness bc it kills in its optimal range. Its optimal is the same as any other gun you idiot accept the rails is simply longer. So rail guns on tanks and vehicles would do less the closer you got as well? If it does very similar dps to other weapons but is better across more ranges, then why would anyone use another weapon?
Also most weapons in this game have similar dps, thats why other things are used to balance the gun. Everything from hip fire dispersion, clipsize, ammo capacity, rate of fire, optics, overheat, pre charge, range, etc etc. You must learn to look at all attributes of a weapon. This takes time in Dust. |
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not... No, you are wromg. It has many weaknesses. It has a small clip size now. It has a charge up time, you can say it doesnt matter but vs other guns its there and its not there with the other guns, so it matters. It has a slow rate of fire. These are the three weaknesses built into the gun, according to ccp perhaps you should read their blog. Where they also say the weapon should be very accurate at cqc. 45 rounds in a magazine is small? Charge up time is laughably low, and a slow rate of fire is compensated with high damage per bullet, which is in no way a weakness. What point are you trying to make? I assume you're just terrible at using it?
I am not the one asking for a nerf, yet I rarely use it. That should tell you something. The rate of fire has nothing to do with damage, at least as it applies to my statement, my point with the rof iscthat in tracking scouts at cqc
rof play a vital role in that faster fire weapons make a easier to hit resulting in more damage on target. Just bc the dps has a set value does not tell you how that will be applied in cqc. As for the charge up time saying it doesnt matter is being willfully ignorant of the fact that it is there. Yes indeed it does matter simply because it does not exist on the other weapons. The 42 round clip is smaller than the other guns, and though it has high damage per bullet bc of the slow rof this means that any rounds missed in cqc will be that much more important in cqc fight. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Charge up time does nothing when you prefire around walls and cover. It's no longer a factor when that is possible. Reducing the magazine size would be too large of a nerf with an automatic weapon. The point of this discussion is to give the rail rifle a weakness! It doesn't have one! Its too good at any range. There's also no point in using the STD over the Militia rail rifle (again, reducing the magazine from 45 to 36 did not decrease it's effectiveness). There are no draw backs to this weapon. It kills up close, and at range. Nearly every weapon has its weakness, while the rail rifle does not... This dude just said the weapon has no weakness bc it kills in its optimal range. Its optimal is the same as any other gun you idiot accept the rails is simply longer. So rail guns on tanks and vehicles would do less the closer you got as well? If it does very similar dps to other weapons but is better across more ranges, then why would anyone use another weapon? Also most weapons in this game have similar dps, thats why other things are used to balance the gun. Everything from hip fire dispersion, clipsize, ammo capacity, rate of fire, optics, overheat, pre charge, range, etc etc. You must learn to look at all attributes of a weapon. This takes time in Dust. Oh my... you just mentioned range. The fact that it has no weakness at close range is the entire point of our 'discussion'.
How is it you seen range but missed everything else I said about what makes up a guns profile? I think we are having it because someone has been killed alot by this gun and they can not figure out how to counter it. |
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