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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
436
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Background
For a very long time, the Minmatar scout has been widely unpopular due to the lack of bonuses that are outpaced and outskilled by Scouts like the Gal and Cal. A huge problem with the role of this Scout, which follows "hit and run" tactics or "guerilla warfare," is that it cannot attempt to unleash it's actions without being scanned by the likes of Cal scouts, and through the shared vision, the team/squad that caldari scout is on. This severely limits the Minmatar scout's capabilities and leaving it only viable for hacking, which is literally the only thing it can do better than most other scouts, even though it does higher NK damage, it's again negated by being unable to complete it's mission due to the constant passive scans.
Active Dampening
However we can't fix the Min scout by providing a passive dampening bonus as the Gal scout already has this. Thus we can use an existing mechanism to create a vital component that not only make the Min scout role more viable, but also more survivable. This existing mechanism would be the cloak.
We use the cloak as the mechanism to provide the Minmatar scout with "active dampening" as it would allow the scout to become much more invisible for a certain time period. The cloak duration forces the Min scout to only go invisible when it is about to engage with enemies. It also provides the Min scout an escape route from Cal scouts when being hunted, but not forever.
Remember, there is only one change being made here, and that's the increase in dampening bonus exclusive to Minmatar scouts. Whereas the Gal scout is "passively dampened" and can forever avoid scanners with the correct profile base, the Min scout can only "active dampening" with the cloak and strongly advocates for the Min scout role of "hit and run" tactics.
The Dampening bonus added to the Cloak for Min Scouts will have to be somewhat large, say 20-40%, and would scale upwards as the tier of the cloak increases (i.e. basic cloak gets 25%, proto cloak gets 40% or something like this).
There is the matter of whether a Cal scout with 4 Precision Enhancers should be able to scan a Min scout no matter the number of damps it puts on, and currently it's not even possible with the Min scout, even with 3 Complex damps. However with the addition with the cloak and the "active dampening", a Min scout with 3 Complex damps and the proto cloak should be able to avoid a Cal scout only when the cloak is activated.
What do you think?
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
437
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Posted - 2014.07.07 20:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ace Mercenary wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Background
For a very long time, the Minmatar scout has been widely unpopular due to the lack of bonuses that are outpaced and outskilled by Scouts like the Gal and Cal. A huge problem with the role of this Scout, which follows "hit and run" tactics or "guerilla warfare," is that it cannot attempt to unleash it's actions without being scanned by the likes of Cal scouts, and through the shared vision, the team/squad that caldari scout is on. This severely limits the Minmatar scout's capabilities and leaving it only viable for hacking, which is literally the only thing it can do better than most other scouts, even though it does higher NK damage, it's again negated by being unable to complete it's mission due to the constant passive scans.
Active Dampening
However we can't fix the Min scout by providing a passive dampening bonus as the Gal scout already has this. Thus we can use an existing mechanism to create a vital component that not only make the Min scout role more viable, but also more survivable. This existing mechanism would be the cloak.
We use the cloak as the mechanism to provide the Minmatar scout with "active dampening" as it would allow the scout to become much more invisible for a certain time period. The cloak duration forces the Min scout to only go invisible when it is about to engage with enemies. It also provides the Min scout an escape route from Cal scouts when being hunted, but not forever.
Remember, there is only one change being made here, and that's the increase in dampening bonus exclusive to Minmatar scouts. Whereas the Gal scout is "passively dampened" and can forever avoid scanners with the correct profile base, the Min scout can only "active dampening" with the cloak and strongly advocates for the Min scout role of "hit and run" tactics.
The Dampening bonus added to the Cloak for Min Scouts will have to be somewhat large, say 20-40%, and would scale upwards as the tier of the cloak increases (i.e. basic cloak gets 25%, proto cloak gets 40% or something like this).
There is the matter of whether a Cal scout with 4 Precision Enhancers should be able to scan a Min scout no matter the number of damps it puts on, and currently it's not even possible with the Min scout, even with 3 Complex damps. However with the addition with the cloak and the "active dampening", a Min scout with 3 Complex damps and the proto cloak should be able to avoid a Cal scout only when the cloak is activated.
What do you think? No Min Scout needs more PG and CPU
The Min Scout has the most CPU out of all the scouts, and this is balanced with the least PG. Rather than just buff CPU/PG, Kin cats and NK should have reduction in PG requirements for Min Scouts exclusively.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
438
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Posted - 2014.07.07 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I'm sorry, but it already has a good bonus. You can't take away the only thing the Gallente Scout still does.
Active or not, the Gallente's scout is suit that hides, Caldari finds, Amarr runs and Minmatar hack/stab.
You can't stab, run, or even hack without being seen by entire teams who have 1 caldari scout. And did you say good bonuses? The ONLY good bonus is Hacking and that it's so useless if you die from being seen a majority of the time. And dampening temporarily isn't something the Gal scout does. Gal scouts do that PERMANENTLY.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
442
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Posted - 2014.07.07 21:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I'm sorry, but it already has a good bonus. You can't take away the only thing the Gallente Scout still does.
Active or not, the Gallente's scout is suit that hides, Caldari finds, Amarr runs and Minmatar hack/stab. You can't stab, run, or even hack without being seen by entire teams who have 1 caldari scout. And did you say good bonuses? The ONLY good bonus is Hacking and that it's so useless if you die from being seen a majority of the time. And dampening temporarily isn't something the Gal scout does. Gal scouts do that PERMANENTLY. If you don't want to be seen you need to swap a code breaker for a dampener and you need at least an ADV cloak maybe even PRO and that's only for a Cal with 1 Precision if he has more you'll be stacking so many dampeners you'll no longer be a speed hacker quite sad.
Which is the problem lol.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
442
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 22:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jotun Izalaru wrote:The Minja would work just fine if there was incentive to play as something other than Cal Scout, Gal Scout or Heavy, because their advantages are best pressed against assaults and unwary heavies.
I think the problem with your solution is that while it might work right now, cloaks need to have their combat viability utterly removed still and this would negate the advantage you're proposing.
but i feel you. i wish my min scout was still good for anything other than ludicrous gimmicks.
I don't quite understand what you're saying. Could you please elaborate? How would it negate the advantage?
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
443
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 23:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jotun Izalaru wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Jotun Izalaru wrote:The Minja would work just fine if there was incentive to play as something other than Cal Scout, Gal Scout or Heavy, because their advantages are best pressed against assaults and unwary heavies.
I think the problem with your solution is that while it might work right now, cloaks need to have their combat viability utterly removed still and this would negate the advantage you're proposing.
but i feel you. i wish my min scout was still good for anything other than ludicrous gimmicks. I don't quite understand what you're saying. Could you please elaborate? How would it negate the advantage? it doesn't really do the cloaked min scout any good if he has to keep up with a moving target while uncloaking when uncloaking leaves him properly vulnerable like it should be doing.
Not really, because while running away, you wouldn't want to be caught on radar, so cloaking would help Min scouts escape. Also when you're tracking a target with the Min scout, it's not hard getting close, especially when you're cloaked, and by the time your enemy realizes you're right next to them, it's most likely too late.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
456
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Posted - 2014.07.08 13:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I'm sorry, but it already has a good bonus. You can't take away the only thing the Gallente Scout still does.
Active or not, the Gallente's scout is suit that hides, Caldari finds, Amarr runs and Minmatar hack/stab. You can't stab, run, or even hack without being seen by entire teams who have 1 caldari scout. And did you say good bonuses? The ONLY good bonus is Hacking and that it's so useless if you die from being seen a majority of the time. And dampening temporarily isn't something the Gal scout does. Gal scouts do that PERMANENTLY. Yes, you will have to run 1 complex damp if you wanna hide. Sorry but Gal has to run a hack mod to get close to your hacking mod. So yes, you have a good bonus. The Gal did too, but now we have the lowest bonus and have to run at least 2 damps to hide from Cal Scout(not a big deal to you, but us Gals went into our suit excepting then got nerfed) So yes, hacking a point within 2-5 seconds is a really good bonus. Edit:The problem is the Caldari scout, they need to lose some of that precision.
1 Complex Damp is the about the same as a Gal scout running no Damps with a proto cloak. There are so many Cal scouts out there that run more than 1 Precision Enhancer, so you'll end up running 2 Damps, (and still being scanned) while having only 1 low slot for a kin cat or codebreaker, which again, severely limits the abilities of the Min scout because we're too busy trying to avoid being scanned. I will agree with you though that the Caldari scout is definitely the problem, but this is a better solution to that problem.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 14:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Honestly I think the minmatar scout is fine, although it is extremely tough to fit due to low PG. My strategy when I use it is to run very very fast so that I'm in and out of scan ranges before anyone has any time to react. 
How do you run in without being seen on radar? Those Cal scouts are waiting for you to run in, and then they nail you with the Six Kin CR within 3 seconds.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 18:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I'm sorry, but it already has a good bonus. You can't take away the only thing the Gallente Scout still does.
Active or not, the Gallente's scout is suit that hides, Caldari finds, Amarr runs and Minmatar hack/stab. You can't stab, run, or even hack without being seen by entire teams who have 1 caldari scout. And did you say good bonuses? The ONLY good bonus is Hacking and that it's so useless if you die from being seen a majority of the time. And dampening temporarily isn't something the Gal scout does. Gal scouts do that PERMANENTLY. Yes, you will have to run 1 complex damp if you wanna hide. Sorry but Gal has to run a hack mod to get close to your hacking mod. So yes, you have a good bonus. The Gal did too, but now we have the lowest bonus and have to run at least 2 damps to hide from Cal Scout(not a big deal to you, but us Gals went into our suit excepting then got nerfed) So yes, hacking a point within 2-5 seconds is a really good bonus. Edit:The problem is the Caldari scout, they need to lose some of that precision. 1 Complex Damp is the about the same as a Gal scout running no Damps with a proto cloak. There are so many Cal scouts out there that run more than 1 Precision Enhancer, so you'll end up running 2 Damps, (and still being scanned) while having only 1 low slot for a kin cat or codebreaker, which again, severely limits the abilities of the Min scout because we're too busy trying to avoid being scanned. I will agree with you though that the Caldari scout is definitely the problem, but this is a better solution to that problem. Yes, but you have more base speed, more stamina and the hacking bonus. 15 percent to damps is not bad, but it doesn't make up for a single mod. If we both ran 2 damps we would both still be scannable by 4x, the only difference is a Gal can get away if running a third damp(gimping the suit) or a Proto cloak(only good for 30 seconds now) You have better base stats that make up for the damps, again you also have a amazing bonus.
Base Speed is extremely negligible, seriously there is hardly any difference in movement and strafe speeds with Minmatar and other scouts. If it was significant enough I wouldn't be posting this thread right now. There is literally no other base stat that makes up for damps, even hacking doesn't make up for it, and NK are too easy to get away from and Min scout always gets seen on radar so it can never get close enough to use them most of the time.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
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