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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
233
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Posted - 2014.07.06 23:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
If you think PC has anything to do with someone being wealthy in DUST? your clueless about the basic workings of this game.
i think you are being willfully ignorant.
NS did district lockings, they joined all the monopoly alliances, (jumping ship at the right time), put all their timers on Tokyo time, and then spent regular prime time in pub matches doing endless stomps. Stop acting like they are just a bunch of regular folks who had a few good games of caught some lucky breaks. They systematically used and abused the system till CCP had their hand forced into changing it. They took a positive community reward, and turned it into something that negatively impacted many players and the game itself.
They had a choice. They could have out their timers in regular time. Since they are all online at that time anyway. But they preferred to do stomps and make the timers inaccessible. They locked, before locking was fixed. they did everything in their power to keep their ISK subsidy just so they could finance the stomping of new players.
Theres alot of players and corps who could legitimately say that the changes to PC have negatively impacted them. NS and their NC puppets are not one of them. It was their actions more than any other corp that provoked these changes. If theres anyone who should just shut up and deal with the consequences, its them.
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
234
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Posted - 2014.07.07 01:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kaughst wrote:
American time is not 'regular time'. They set their timers late near downtime because that was when they are awake and most active, they are not as active as when the majority of American players are on.
.
Yeah sure, thats why every person who has complained about NS stomps can recall the timeframe being during NA primetime. I myself can.
Youd want me to believe that after all the rage ive read about them on these forums, that in reality, no one ever saw a NS player cause they are only on during Tokyo primetime? Please. You can do better. It is exactly as ive stated it is. They put the timers to a time no one will be on, and stay up to farm during NA primetime.
As for Legion, good luck with that. CCP had to essentially scrap a whole project and start over completely because of the albatross you and your corp hung on this games neck. Im sure they are eagerly looking forward to you hurting player retention on that game too.
Heimdallr69 wrote:
Before talking maybe you should have put some timers on our time? Then I wouldn't have to wake up early to take you're ****.: we dealt with it and didn't cry so why are you?
i have a screenshot of a Q-synced NS/NC Ambush game. Taken during NA primetime several months back.
Bethhy wrote:
Everything you said in this post is half true and based on either forum rumors or bullshit gossip you hear in game from players who know half truths they are repeating off forums.. and make up the rest.
It's just fear and ignorance spewing this kinda garbage.
You know, half is 50%. 51% is a majority. So if i can come up with another 1% of fact, that will put me in the majority right side. Being wrong by 1% is pretty good by my standards.
Since we are trying though to make sure an accurate narrative is established, why dont you tell us about your time in DNS. The smaller corps you crushed to make way for your doughnut. All that collaboration and no fighting. The fact that AE got so bored they were here on the forums offering to q-sync FW as a pseudo PC match. They clearly were hungry for fights, but didn't want to risk their Obamacare districts.
You go on and on about how much you care about PC. What happened to What The French? You guys ganged up on them and forced out the longest standing PC corp just so you could have bragging rights.
Doesnt really sound like someone who really cares about PC. Rather, you seem to be motivated by a sense of entitlement and delusions of benevolence. |
LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
235
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Posted - 2014.07.07 02:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:You really are that ignorant aren't you? If you were in NS you would know when most players get on.. Yeah we have about 2 full squads during NA time but why would we set timers for 12 -20 players? NS prime time isn't NA prime time. We have enough players for at least 1 squad at all times (usually, not always).
Also we try to q-sync against each other when we have 2 full squads on. Unfortunately the matchmaking doesn't always put us on opposite sides..
Look, you can justify things however you want. Getting me to agree with you wont change much. The OP started this thread to lament the lack of passive ISK. I was simply explaining to him that he belonged to an organization that is partially responsible for the present situation.
You can give your reasons, ect. It wont change what has happened. if people didn't reallocate PC ISK to pubs, people in the pubs wouldn't have complained as much. And if they didn't complain as much, CCP wouldn't have had to change the system. Im not the one that said "Yeah why dont you guys grab 5 madrugar ion cannons and go stomp a bunch of new players right out of the academy". You guys did that all on your own.
You can call me ignorant all you want. Maybe from your perspective thats how I look. From my perspective though, you look like you're in denial. |
LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
235
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Posted - 2014.07.07 02:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
What can you do when LAVALLOIS Nash makes up facts then calls them true because he saw it one time in DUST..
Well a confirmed sighting usually means something crosses over from "suspected" to "confirmed". If I saw something, even once, I can confirm i saw it. If I never, ever saw it, then it is suspected. or "rumored", if you will.
So its not made up in that sense. Besides, weve already confirmed that although im not 100% right, im atleast 50%.
Bethhy wrote:Just like the matchmaking system is completely the players fault who then have to use his "Made up sense of video game Honor" to not actively kill the game.
Its not about a "made up sense of honor". its about not hurting retention in a nascent FPS. Since you know everything, you would have known that FPS games, especially console ones, is a overly saturated market, and that a game has to be extraordinary to capture and retain a respectable market share.
Since an online FPS game is made up of....community.....its a collective responsibility to help player retention along. Instead vets like you spend all day giving people more reasons to leave rather than stay. Heres some simple economics: Dwindling player base = dwindling player generated revenue = Game terminated much earlier than projected.
Bethhy wrote:He can continue to blame the players for the state of DUST... But he and everyone that does just looks like an absolute moron trying to do so.
The game IS players. Its an online FPS. Without players, its just a bunch of artwork and customization options. CCP can only do so much.
You are quick to blame, and even insult others for what you perceive is failure to do something on their part, but really, you have never stepped up and taken responsibility to make it better. You just participate in self destructive behavior and then lament that CCP is not cleaning up your mess properly.
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
238
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Posted - 2014.07.07 16:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
Lol just wow.
If a game doesn't construct a proper End game with motivational reasons it will not keep activity in the game. That is just fact.
District locking was started by none of the people you think started it. The corporations you look at for district locking didn't need to.. Other people started and you would of been a fool or trying to make up "Internet Honor" to not do something CCP said as fine and their error. .
You like live in some kind of alternative reality in your head or something. You keep going on and on about "internet honor".
Take a second to smack your head on your desk viciously a few times till you get that idea out of your head. Good. Now listen carefully. Its not about "honor", its about growth. If you uproot a plant before it bears fruit, you wont get your yeild. It has nothing to do with "honor".
Here, follow along..... Bigger player base = expanded revenue = more CCP resources for development = end game gets developed.
Now, follow along the way that you "vets" have done things so far: Hurt player base size = less revenue = less CCP resources for development = end game cancelled.
Again, its not about "honor". You guys essentially cut a tree down before it could bear fruit. You can call that whatever you want, its just simple fact that you stunted growth at a critical time, so now it will never grow again.
Bethhy wrote:Instead we got a knee jerk reaction from people who have never been part of it to instantly remove it because these guys are farming ISK then killing you in public matches and that is no fair. sadface.  Fck the big picture it's all about Pub's right? lol
Pubs are the entry level gamemode. People new to this game cant just go right to PC. They need to play pubs and FW till they have about 15-20 million SP to gain experience and equipment access to be able to be competetive in PC.
If people like you give them more reason to quit rather than stay during that time, you end up with only a fraction of the PC players you would have otherwise had. So yes, pub are the most critical aspect of the game. If you could see further than the tip of your own nose, you would know this, as its common sense.
Any game that has a legitimate competitive scene and end game, has a large base of casual players propping it up.
Bethhy wrote:CCP slowly started killing off the end game and growth of DUST for veteran players.. they started leaving and finding new homes like would happen inevitably if there was little to no focus placed on the End game for over a year. And now the few left from those groups of players from back then have all consolidated under the few active corporations left..
Id say thats a mixed blessing. The one good thing about Fanfest is that because so many of these locusts moved on, the game has a chance to rip this albatross vet community off its neck.
Ive actually seen better games and far more new players since fanfest 2014. One can only hope the trend continues. Never mind consolidation, lets see some "closing down" and "out of business" signs on the windows of these vet corps.
Bethhy wrote:The biggest problem with a new corporation getting into PC, is there is no where in DUST that teaches you how to play as 16 mercenaries trying to win the match. Pub's are a joke... FW are a joke... and when you jump into PC your facing people who have played that game mode for over a year.. and rarely play Pubs(If they played pubs for a year they would of quit)
That is the problem with PC... We need a Team deploy mode that you can deploy 16 mercenaries for a fun educational match against another 16. Without having to pay for a clone pack to learn.
No, again you keep looking everywhere for reasons while ignoring the elephant in the room. The problem with PC is not the lack of a team deploy. Its that the player base suffered decline instead of growth, and now you are left playing against the same people over and over.
Since this is probably your first online videogame, ill give you a pass on not seeing it coming.
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
241
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 18:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
You should use multi quotes to structure your arguments. Makes for a more coherent argument. As Ive said before, this game is all PVP and not PvE. Players are the ones that animate the whole thing. If they animated it in a destructive way, they bear responsibility.
Bethhy wrote:No player in any game is supposed to self nerf themselves while they play... the mere notion is sad.
Complaining about squads when CCP let squads of 6 and the matchmaking system is SAD.
The fact that you don't realize CCP has had 60 employees with a multi-million budget for this game and you seem to blame the players for it?
.
"self nerfing", thats all relative. I have plenty of success ingame without the need to find 5 other elitists and run a bunch of Ion Cannon tanks against players right out of the academy.
Bethhy wrote:Our job as players is to play the game to the best of our ability. Not to self impose YOUR made up rules about how to play DUST.
Its not about rules, its about the simple concept of sustainability. I could explain it to you in detail, but your teenage mind is so stuck up on yourself, that it would be a waste of time.
ill just make it really simple. You guys were so unpleasant to be around that no one wants to spend time with you. Nevermind "rules, honor, ect". You took a fun game and made it into a chore, so people found fun elsewhere.
Also, its not a job, its supposed to be a game. If you want a job, get out of your basement and go apply for one.
Bethhy wrote:DUST has a turn over rate of population at like 80%.. meaning 80% of the entire DUST population recycles each month. and 80% quit. It's the highest turn over rate in the industry. there are articles written on it.
And vet Corps? QCGold is older then a majority of Corporations you cal vet. LordChaos and a couple of my friends tried to make QCGold relevant in PC.. But because of massive leadership deficiencies they had to go make their own corporation.
QCgold is understandably bitter about PC. But it's wasn't player skill that limited them.
Its exactly like ive been saying, it hurts player retention. When people lose by a little, they want to keep trying. When people lose by alot, they get discouraged. When they get redlined 2 mins into the game by a stomp, they realize playing the game is futile and they consider abandoning the game.
As for QcGold, the "closed" sign has been on our window for awhile now. Im probably the last active member. I joined way after they weren't a PC presence anymore. And it honestly doesn't bother me. Im a solo player who sometimes goes weeks without playing.
Bethhy wrote:
This comes down to CCP. all the blame lies with them, and the fact that you are trying to blame players for playing the game... Not how you want them to play it.
Proves to everyone how bitter, shortsighted and misguided your blame really is.
im not saying CCP has no blame. But the game is what people make it to be. What it is today, is a direct result of your actions.
To sum it up, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Since this is your first FPS, you should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buyUoGJVZFM
You should understand that FPS games have been around since the mid 1990s, and that there are certain things to do and to not do in order to not have a toxic community that hampers retention.
Anyway, im going to take a break from arguing to go play. But i eagerly await your next anger and insult filled reply!
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
249
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Posted - 2014.07.08 15:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:And it's not there fault, and it's simply because of what you underlined earlier, CCP is to blame 100%.
Blaming people for playing a system that literally makes this game what it is is absurd.
Thats like saying its the planets fault for not absorbing an oil spill when it happens. Its just ironic that you blame CCP for giving you guys the benefit of the doubt instead of forseeing just how rotten some of the player base would be.
Maybe for legion, they should just assume that the vet tryhard community will be scum, and just make tons and tons of rules so that we have no freedom and everything has to be done on a linear path with no choice. Nevermind meta game, everything will be tightly controlled and regulated so that you dont destroy their investment a 2nd time.
Since instead of blaming the vandal, we are blaming the property for having the ability to get vandalized.
You should do like the rest of your corp and pack it up and leave. Since you are so unhappy here, and obviously destined for internet greatness, why dont you take your toxic attitude and go pollute a different community with it.
We will replace you with someone who is capable of making a positive contribution. |
LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
249
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 16:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
Seriously? you can't be that dense.
You want to talk density? Since you know everything in the world, i would have though you would understand some basic economics. Obviously not.
Lets run some numbers up, shall we?
Alright, so 60 employees, a "multi million dollar budget", and 5 years?
The average salary for designers, coders and artists on the low end is 60,000 a year. At the high end its about 90,000. So 60 employees x 60,000 = 3.6 million a year just in salaries. Times 5? Thats 18 million dollars. And thats lowballing it.
Now, since money doesn't grow on trees, and cause unlike you, CCPs parents dont pay everything for them, they have to make that money back. Its called investing. Thats where someone spends some capital in hopes of making more than they spent back over a period of time.
How do you want them to make 18 million dollars back on a game that averages 4,000 people online during its peak periods? Dont forget, that 18 million is just a low estimate on salary costs. Theres alot of overhead that is not being calculated. Things like electric bills, R&D costs, bandwidth costs, ect. These "multi millions" add up and disappear pretty fast.
Now, instead of developing and progressing the game, those people have had to constantly dedicate their efforts to cleaning up messes left by the folks like you with a massive entitlement complex. You break something, they have to stop what they are doing and fix it. You cant just have 1 person go and fix something, it is a collaborative team effort.
According to you, you should have the right to chase away their revenue stream, have efforts dedicated to babysitting you, and develop an "end game" so that you can feel like you've accomplished something. WOW. "im a player I have the right to break everything. its their fault for making something breakable in the first place".
It goes without saying that you have never worked a day in your life and have no concept of the value of money.
Do you get it now? You choked off their source of revenue. Demanded extra resources, and then complained that they couldn't find even more resources to cater to your dreams. Their resources and funding are finite. Thats why they are coming out with Legion. Dust will never make back its investment cause you and your friends made sure there wouldn't be enough players to fund the project. |
LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
251
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:
IMO - just give the losing side ISK and keep things the way they are. That pretty much fixes everything, the problem right now is PC is an ISK sink, especially to newer corps who can't win. But if losing gained them some small amount of ISK it would give them incentive to keep trying and get good enough to get the real ISK for winning.
You might be onto something here. If they paid the losing slide more on a sliding scale, that could let things regulate themselves.
The more a side loses by, the bigger of a bonus they get. On the flip side, the winning team gets paid more the smaller the gap.
So a game with a total stomp would result in no bonus ISK for the winners, but a healthy bonus to the losers. A close loss would result in no bonus ISK for the losers, but alot of bonus ISK for the winners. That would, in theory, encourage more balanced games, as there would be more incentive on the advantaged team to win by a narrower margin.
However, im sure people would subject it to abuse. (alt accounts deliberately throwing matches). And it also clashes with the whole EVE ideology, as it would essentially be rewarding mediocrity. But I mean, if we are going to give out free ISK as a subsidy, it should go to those who will use it to build rather than use it to destroy. |
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