While this looks like a flame thread at first, a detailed reading leads me to believe it is in fact genuine. This character is from May 2013, and has a realistic corp history including tankers unite. SO lets at least start with a fair reading and response. And Im guessing my posting will summon Taka to the thread, and I apologise in advance for that.

So you propose that it take 4 people several minutes to kill a tank. In other words the entire enemy team running nothing but dedicated AV to destroy 4 players on your team in tanks, leaving the other 12 to run anti infantry? How does this one point seem realistically fun for all involved?

Judge and I are in complete agreement on this one. It is not balanced, or fun, to require a team to dedicate 1/4 of its manpower to suppressing one individual. No other FPS has a mechanic like that because it creates drastic imbalances between the teams.

I would really like it if players like you were a little less selfish. Any given game element should help make the game more fun for all the players in a given match.

If it takes team effort to kill you should it also not take a team be you(the tank)?

Because math....

A squad of 6 - 4 AV'ers == 2! (anti-infantry)
Vs.
A squad of 6 - 1 Tanker == 5! ((anti-infantry) + 1 Tank)

Does this seem fair?

Just had a match where 1 tanker vsed 1 militia swarm, 1 advanced swarm and 1 normal forge gun (the normal forge gun being me with 3 complex heavy damage mods). It wasn't even enough to burst him down. Just like you had to spec into tanks some one else had to spec into av and put themselves in considerable danger to go out with only a forge gun and a sidearm to hunt you. They are a huge target for infantry and if they are hitting you from a safe spot it's probably because your near the enemies red line and probably harassing the poor redberries trying to get out like most tanks do.

It's really bad enough most tanks come in and take your MCC spawn points supply depo and installations so that they can red line you without fear. Seriously i know your tanks are expensive but you gotta let the infantry do their thing, you can't just go 20/0 every game. Sometimes the enemy has proto av and you have to realize your not stomping that match. Sometimes they have no av at all and you know you own that game.

You are 1 guy in a tank, if it took 2-3 guys to operate a good tank then i'd be fine with nerfing av again but it already takes 3+ guys if you don't have proto, that's time and effort taken away from hacking objectives and defending points and just because 1 guy on the enemy team decided he wants to drive a tank. Why you feel the need for tanks to be the fcking final boss i will never know but the game is about hacking points not getting the whole team together to stop a tank. Av getting nerfed constantly is what forces people to do the stuff you guys hate such as Jihad jeeps. I know you probably won't agree at all but that's usually the case for tankers who don't step foot outside their tanks for even 1 match to see how it is trying to fight without being in a damn Gundam. Fact is you are the minority and the game should not be molded around you when infantry is the meat of the game.

Such dumb.

Much Drivel.

Should I even bother forming a coherent response to this?

Wow.

Judge and I are in complete agreement on this one. It is not balanced, or fun, to require a team to dedicate 1/4 of its manpower to suppressing one individual. No other FPS has a mechanic like that because it creates drastic imbalances between the teams.

I would really like it if players like you were a little less selfish. Any given game element should help make the game more fun for all the players in a given match.

It is still a troll post.

I don't think even Spkr ever suggested it should take a full minute to kill him.

5m ISK says this is a Red Star. alt.

i hate it when players call my tanks i win buttons total crap anyway the armor rep did need to get nerfed but the railgun heat build-upper shot increce change and the the damage and the firerate reduction changes were to much your over nerfing. all was needed was one change and if they still went happy then then they could allways change the other thing just my 2 cents.

what made you think im a armor tank? im a gunnlogi all the ways bro way my agile.

I hear you panda, but I ran my tank account it wasnt that bad. Before the update dude I was playing DOM on Manus Peaks we had the good side. DDB pushed three triple rep Maddys up on our ridge, we literally had 4 or 5 forgers on them and killed 1 the whole game. It was absolutely horrible. So dont take me wrong here when I tell you they needed a nerf. Tanks will go back to normal levels and people will need skill to use them. Mainly now you tanks will need to consider tactics, positioning, entry to a a battle, exit strategy, and most importantly you will now need to consider infantry support to kill those forgers. We cant do it alone and neither can you, I think thats righteous.

This is an obvious troll thread, but I'm going to respond anyways; for old time's sake.

• Forge Gun Proficiency V: 2,624,160 SP
• HAV Operation I: 335,800 SP

I have a Proficiency V Swarm Launcher, but if I had to guess I'd say that the Prof. V Forge Gun is indeed "scarier" than Vehicle Command V & HAV Operation I. For your information, I do own my own HAVs (as well as having a good amount invested into them). So do a good amount of players in this thread.

However, participation in Vehicle vs AV balance doesn't require that you own a vehicle, as it affects both AVers and Pilots as well.


This part made me laugh.

If you find yourself loosing ISK to the point where you have to be afraid to operate your vehicle, your doing it wrong. Coming from an AVer who also used vehicles pre Uprising 1.7, being a pilot is a cakewalk. All you have to do to stay alive is:

1. Tap R2
2. Rotate Joystick
3. Move Joystick Forward
4. Move Joystick Left or Right

Considering how AV weapons are terrible against Infantry and we have to rely on a "trusty" secondary, the AVer struggles to stay alive far more than the Pilot will ever have to. Unless, you think being immune to 80% of the weapons in DUST 514 is a struggle. In that case, Lol.

As for standing up against the Tanker Community, AVers already did so during Uprising 1.7's launch date when AV Weapons became plush toys with a bright "EZ Kill Here" sign. Perhaps you should go back a few hundred pages when the Pilots were complaining about players using MLT Railguns as opposed to AV weapons to kill them.


Considering how your crying for AV to be nerfed to where it takes 4 AVers several minutes to kill you, I have doubts that you can even fight your way out of a wet paper bag, let alone another vehicle.


Anti-Vehicle weapons are designed to be "the 24/7 Destroyer of All Vehicles". Heck, that's quite literally their only purpose in this game. Why would I bother using or investing into an AV Weapon if it weren't the case?

HAVs aren't fun. Their extremely repetitive, and so easy that my 8yr old Baby Sister could perform well with them.

:: picks up the crayons ::
:: passes around juice packs ::

He is saying it's proably Takihiro or Spkr, we've not encountered such terrible logic since those posted 30 posts in each tank thread.

Lets not forget that manpower is only part of the equation. Think in man minutes. Look at ttk. 2 militia players can down a proto player in 2 seconds. Despite his advantage he can be overcome in short time by a realistically sized team. The amount of man time used is 4 seconds. Put another way; a gear advantage can be overcome by numbers yet not restrict the disadvantaged team as little man time is used up.

The OP proposes that 4 players take two minutes to kill one player. Thats 8 man minutes on just a single player. In other words :

Out of the 240 man minutes in a match. The OP thinks that 3% of the entire teams possible effort should be focused on 1 guy over a whole match. Thats 16% of a full teams time in a game to kill your 4 tankers just once.

After reading every post in this thread I am actually looking forward to these videos. Please do voice over, not just straight gameplay footage. I want to hear if you speak in CAPS too.

Remember that if you just upload a match no-one will know what point you are trying to make. It may seem obvious to you, as you were in the match, but not to the viewer. Voice over please. I look forward to being suspended... or whatever and seeing this war room which I guess is up the stairs in the war-barge?

I hope more people read this.

Challenge accepted. In fact I think anyone in this thread to make that video for you.

I'd start the biomass now.

If you think two Militia players can't take out a fully decked Proto suit, you've clearly been in the tank for too damn long.

I love when people say things like "and they didn't even have damage mods or proficiency". As if it's normal for a vehicle pilot to capture glimpses of 4 digit ehp numbers and do rapid arithmetic all while piloting a vehicle in order to determine whether or not there is a possible combination of DMs/proficiency/weapon that could have delivered the received damage in each hit.

I'm not necessarily claiming that I know you weren't able to do this, but I would be willing to bet that very few people record the match and do the math later to determine an enemy fit. I don't believe anyone can realistically keep up with 4 different AV sources reliably in the heat of the moment so I don't really give credit to many of these "4 FG gunners could/couldn't kill a MLT tank" stories. They're most likely exaggerated on both ends of this classic argument.

I'm a tanker and I'm happy with hot fix bravo.

Tankers like you are something of a cancer to this game and the only best way to get rid of your type is to buff AV even more.

Basic summary goes for this thread:

'I'm a stupid tanker and I want to farm infantry kills and it's no fair that I can lose my tank.

And.

Tanks should be the only viable thing to kill another tank'

As much as I like to advocate multiple people taking down a tank what he's saying and complaining about kind of makes you wonder what his IQ is and BTW the CEO of Tankers United is probably one of the worst tankers in DUST.

Yes, hmm, yes they are.

Oh ****, I'm a tanker........ slash forge gun on the side

So this whole thread is nothing but a tanker whining and crying that AV is to OP.

Lets break this sh!t down

AV

1) All nades have been nerfed so you can only carry 1 or 2 max and so they are so weak that they can't even hurt a mlt tank

2) Swarms have been nerfed to the point that you need proto with as many damage mods as you can use to do any damage

3) Forges have been nerfed so that unless you get a direct hit a tank driver will laugh at you while tearing you up with his blasters and you need 3-4 proto forges to make a tank retreat.

Tanks and ADS

1) You have so much hp that you dont need to care about 1 or 2 AV players, especially with heavy repers

2) You can sit in the red line or behind the red line and get 20-30 kills with a large rail gun and not even worry about AV, and ADS can fly so high that you can barely even see them

3) You have hardeners and speed mod that make it so that unless you have a person from the Short Bus driving you can escape any and all attempts to use AV against you


All in all i would say that any tankers or ADS users should stop b!tching about CCP fixing a skill that was broken just to give us AV users any kind of fighting chance against you tankers that stack plates and repers and laugh at the people who even try and destroy your tank or ADS.

When are you tankers and ADS b!tches gonna stop whining and crying about losing a tank, when CCP makes it so that tanks and ADS are the only means of playing the game because nothing can kill them?

When are you b!tches gonna stop ruin the game for everyone else? Because of tanks and ADS ambush got so messed up they had to ban vechieles of any kind, they took out logi LAV and there is no plans to add them back into the game because all you vechile drivers abused them to the point they had to remove them.

If you idiot tank drivers don't stop your whining and crying and b!tching they will end up taking all the tanks and drop ships and lavs out of them game completely, then wtf you tankers gonna do? Because every one and their mother already knows that you only got into tanking and ads because you can't get any kills with any of the light or heavy or side arm weapons in the game so you had to start using the only thing that you can get kills with.

I was affected somewhat because even though I'm a shield missile tanker first I also run armor tanks and it is a bit harder hitting infantry with my ion cannon but I thinks it's completely fair after all my tanks are set up for tank v tank anyway I leave the infantry to my gunners and I'll pick some people off here and there. Also come on panda it's your own fault you wouldn't have been affected so much if you didn't rely so much on triple damage mod railguns and triple rep maddy's.

Some proto suits cost 200-280k ISK, so losing a tank that cost roughly the same makes half the community laugh at your ignorance.

Secondly. Your tank can rush into a group and murder just about anyone in one or two hits. You're OP right from the start. It takes 2-3 good AV guys to kill you in your tank. These people are generally working together and lose several suits in the process (kills you get).

What's the problem? There aren't many players that can go 1 vs 3 and make it out alive. Plus, if you can't handle it learn to move in and out and learn to strike when you know there are NO AV then recall your tank when AV arrives and kill them sending them back to their light weapons.

FYI, I lose a dropship just about every match that's roughly 600k ISK so don't cry about losing a 200k tank.

Threads like this are so funny and delicious.
Teamwork to take out 1 player? No should not be required. You want to be uber get your team to help.
Tanks running rogue (aka solo) should be easy pickings for AV weapons.
Here is the thing AV weapons are great at taking out vehicles (shocked gasp OH MY) the only av weapon that can also take out infantry is the forge gun and its not great at that given its very limited clip / carry.

If you want to speak of "real life" ever since the advent of armor and armored vehicles there have been methods to take them out usually by a single weapon and very often used by 1 soldier maybe 2. In modern days there are many types of man portable anti armor weapons, many of which are guided.

So in short HTFU.

Thrilled to see we're still going strong!

:: picks up empty juice cartons ::
:: passes out crayons ::

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6qHL7jET8Gc

One man vs tank

There's a reason why armor exist....

I'm going to say this straight up.

You literally go into matches, pull out your tank, and run over other friendlies LAV's.

At some point, a scrub like you and your opinion is 100% worthless. I will repeat this on every thread you ever start.

ide like to point out something here


IF CCP would just keep good on their word of pilot suits....

and then make them stackable...so 3 people ina 3 turrent tanks got 3 pilot suit bonus's...and equate that strength ...to be able to survive 2-3 av it would be acceptable...as 3 dedicated pilots manning a tank in pilot suits should be able to hold up to av of that level.

this is also thinking and assuming ccp realized that in order to make this work they would have to move away from pilot suit's enhancing the killing potential of an hav...and towards pilot suits enhancing the defensive abilities of the hav.

..oh btw my fix entails new content and coolness to dust so wont happen...


you cant balance dust based on isk price

you can balance it on manpower

i was under the understanding that the original concept of vehicles was pilot suits would make them powerful...

i would like so see pre bravo tanks...back....but only if there are 3 pilot suits sitting in that tank making it take 2- 3 proto avers

the main issue is one person should not have to have 3 people counter them ...especially ina 16 person teammode fps

I don't even have proto. You need to make up your mind, are you Duna's buddy who stomps worse than any other protostomper or are you the hero of the little guy?

Personally I can't tell if you are a troll or just delusional or both.

OP should try battlefield if he thinks AV is OP. people can kill you there with a rep tool aswell. You're lucky this is not the case in Dust. To me this post is hilarious as OP was relying on broken mechanics, now that theyre "fixed" he starts crying" because his win button is gone. Douchebag

Let me get my camera, just yesterday I killed a Proto-Caldari with a mlt Scrambler Rifle, it shouldn't be too hard to replicate.

What he means is that this dude does it on purpose, if he see a LAV on map red or bluen he makes sure to ram into it.

He might also be one of the lamos that when they see a blue tank that weaker then his he will ram it and run it over until it blows up.

Oh when you admitt that you a cowardly whiny b!tch that hides in red line with rail tank that makes all you argeuments about how AV needs to be nerfed 10000000% worthless. Red line tankers are a joke because they to scared to come out and fight in a place they have a chance get killed.

Well guess what buddy you just painted a huge red X on your self now because i hunt red line tanks with my jihad lav. its so tasty when i can destroy your 250k-500k tank with it only cost me 6k isk for my r/e

And for the record i have skilled into infintry and tanks and ads so i know what im talking about.

This just makes me burst in laughter. The logic of "to kill a tank yu need another tank to kill it." Isnt forge guns and swarm launchers in the ANTI-vehicle category? If yu really are one of those scrubs using triple rep mods, i think yu need some new fittings kid. If a fit doesnt work for yu then make another fit. If its true of how yu say yur this and that then why arent yu smart enough to make stronger fits? Hahaha, i can kill yur triple rep mod tank with a dual reppet tank and a hardener.
OH MY GAWD, i just gave yu a hint ** interesting a dual rep tank with a hardener =ƒÿ¦ they made hardeners for a reason. And if yur gonna go on about me not being able to use infantry, i in my MEDIC STARTER GAL FIT solo can take down proto stompers. Its not that hard, all yu need to learn is to aim yur gun correctly and shoot. Infantry dont need help from tanks in order to kill other infantry. Like yu said, it shuld be tank vs tank, so then it should be infantry vs infantry as well. If yur going to complain abouy puny infantry with less than 1000 hp killing yu...just please get some skill. As a tanker myself, i have killed yu like no problem so please stop trying to show off. Showing off while whining and complaining about av is just a disgrace to tanking. Btw there is a way to counter tank+av vs tank!!!!(whispers**tank+skill beats tank+av!) im so tired of people like yu who just gets in a tank the whole day because yu cant use a light or heavy or sidearm weapon. Yu keep complaining about yur 200k isk tank, well sir, i full on proto slayer cost 240k isk for a medium suit for me :) a full on pro scout cost about 160k isk and how do they die? Examples of how easy to kill these kind of people: heavy machine gun in basic sent(6k isk), remotes on a starter fit(1k isk), militia shotguns in militia or blueprint scouts who can 3 shot yu(3k isk), any type of rifle with good accuracy and strafing(30k isk and less). Stop being so selfish and pretending yur helping yur blueberries. If yu want to help them so much, get out of yur tank and shoot with yur team with a rifle or even a SNIPER. Another example of killing proto suits, sniping in the red line =ƒÿ¦ as much as i hate it, yu cant take it out of the game so what do yu do? Deal with it! People like yu ruin the game, so just stop talking and actually read what these people have said to you. Again i just gave yu a tank fit and if yu arent happy about that, 1 vs 1 me on tank vs tank on oceana and mail me so i know and ill be more than happy to do so. If yu want to see a militia against a proto user in dropsuits, ill do it, bring a proto user with yu and ill use militia in 1v1 in oceana and ill show yu how easy it is to stomp a squad using proto. Oh if yur wondering how, its called MILITIA SPAM STOMPING.

Before yu say anything, at least think abouy what yur gonna say cuz yu make yurself sound so stupid replying to all these people's replies that actually make sense.

Why do i get the feeling that this noob was one of the murder taxi drivers when we had logi LAVs. I'm talking about the noob who started this thread. Such a total noob cake it makes me laugh.

I'll drink tea made out of your tears after i kill your triple rep and double damage mod tank that only a noob tries to run in 1.8.

Every skilled tanker knows that since bravo hot fix they nerfed tank repers and that its all about speed and scans. Scans so you can see all the reds around you and speed so you can get away from the treats.

Now if your to thick headed to see that everyone is trying to tell you that your a bad tanker then it's not my fault. Get good at tanking then cry about things being unbalanced.

If you want to talk about unbalanced tanks and AV, I can remember times when swarms were free fire, forges could 2-3 shot any tak and kill 3-4 infintry at once, when tanks were so op that all you could ever do was run from them or hope and pray another tanker was on your team.

There were ups and downs for both sides, and right now it's at it best. Reasons are that you need more then one person running AV to kill a tank but not an entire squad. While at the same time tanks have a way to escape from the worst of it and have a chance to survive

I came onto your post as a tanker and a scout, with no intention to trash you at all. But when you start your thread by saying that fixing a skill is the same as getting a buff, my "dumba$$ alert" starts going off especially when you say you don't bother to read what people are trying to tell you( including me ).

Any skilled ( not skills you spend sp on ) will tell you that trying to tank using a fit that worked in the previous builds will not work in this build. You have to be change your fits to work with the build. In my corp we have blaster tankers that hardly ever lose tanks because they were smart about there fits, they don't hide in red line and they don't stay in the middle of a red AV team.

As for my corp being a proto stomper corp that is a joke. My corp don't go straight for proto unless its a pc, because no one can afford to lose 200k isk or more costing suits, just like tankers can't afford to lose 200k isk or more tanks.

Again use the brain you got for thinking and not as a cushion for you a$$

Just because my corp regularly destroys your red line tanks don't mean we are proto stompers, just means we tank smarter not harder

here AV scum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qR0Uke2XNI

Its called being smart redline = jihad, my 6k isk to your 200k isk.

you can't hide from something that can drive faster then you can charge and fire.

You're 100% right, tankers and ADS flyers are not happy at all, and when it comes to ADS they have every right to be wanting it fixed.

Tankers want their tanks to be a rolling end game where nothing short of a stronger tank can kill them, and to hell with the people who spent weeks and months getting there proto AV gear.
What is the point of there being Forge Guns ans Swarm Launchers and AV nades in the game if they are not going to be effective against what they were made for? That is the point that 75% tankers that say tanks need to be buffed do not see, the AV weapons were put in the game so people who don't want to skill into tanks have something they can use against them.

The best part is that if it were only tanks that can destroy other tanks then it comes down to which side gets there maxed out damage rail tank in first, because which ever side does can easily prevent the other team from calling any tanks ot lav or drop ships with their ungodly range.