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Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
714
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Posted - 2014.07.01 23:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Could be a great asset.
First take a look at this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M it's of a game called 'No Mans Sky', quite honestly looks to be amazing. Everything in there universe is procedurally generated; plants, animals, ships, planets, cave networks within said planets and more.
It's already been stated however that this game will not be an MMO but more of an anti-MMO, for example their treating the universe as so big that you may never see another player. 'Hello Games' consists of a team of 10 people, only a handful of which are working on No Mans Sky, and look at how much they've accomplished.
Simplified, this is how it's done. Imagine making an Argonian (Lizard) in Skyrim or your face in EvE, with all the sliders that change how you look. Then imagine that this is taken to the extreme! The hight is adjustable, whether it has 2, 4 or 8 legs, how many eyes it has, the colour tones it has on individual parts of the body... ext ext. This means that effectively all you have to do is create that one base model (the Argonian (lizard)) and the computer randomises and does the rest. From that one model you have created an entire genome of a species!
But his got me thinking, what could this sort of technology do for Legion? The large maps we have already been told that there's to much going on with them for it to work well. However what about dead-space complexes, making each venture unique? Or plants and trees on the battlefield? And this would go a long way to making exploration less repetitive (over and over on the same set of maps).
There are a lot of ways you could add this aesthetically with putting a finger to any core gameplay. What do you think? Throw me your suggestions or tell me why you don't like it and I'll mark the it up on the OP.
Twitter MajLagSpike
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Terry Webber
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
444
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Posted - 2014.07.02 02:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cool video. No Man's Sky looks awesome and it would be awesome to see this kind of thing in Legion. By the way, when you wrote "with" in your third-to-last sentence, did you actually mean "without"? |
Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
716
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Posted - 2014.07.02 07:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:Cool video. No Man's Sky looks awesome and it would be awesome to see this kind of thing in Legion. By the way, when you wrote "with" in your third-to-last sentence, did you actually mean "without"? Ah yes without, fixed, ty.
Twitter MajLagSpike
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Dnaizohd Orlenaard
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.07.02 09:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have to agree completely. I would love for this to be in Legion.
Quite franquily I always had this idea in my head that there would be more Dust Mercenaries than there would be Capsuleers, from a Lore standpoint, and also, because Dust is free to play, so even though there are thousands of planets, at least there would be alot of mercs also, so the hol' anti-mmo aspect woundl't be that bad.
It just makes sense to me to have the ability to explore all these planets. And gameplay wise, well, planetary conquest and all of those activities are always gonna be some sort of choke points where everyone is going to gather to fight for something so.
Quote: The large maps we have already been told that there's to much going on with them for it to work well.
Was this mentioned for Project Legion or for Dust? Because of the platform, Dust had memory issues that unabled the developers to add further complexity into the overall enviorment, but is that still a problem in the pc architecture land?
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Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
717
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Posted - 2014.07.02 12:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dnaizohd Orlenaard wrote:Quote: The large maps we have already been told that there's to much going on with them for it to work well. Was this mentioned for Project Legion or for Dust? Because of the platform, Dust had memory issues that unabled the developers to add further complexity into the overall enviorment, but is that still a problem in the pc architecture land? I think it was mentioned from an exploitable standpoint in both games. Areas being to flat for sniper nests or to compact to escape from heavy's. PC would be a nightmare on the right planets!
But I don't find this to much of a problem in the example of a dead-space complex, It's much more of a manufactured setting anyway (long metal corridors) and would by default be a much more even playing field.
Twitter MajLagSpike
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Dnaizohd Orlenaard
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.07.02 16:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Syeven Reed wrote:Dnaizohd Orlenaard wrote:Quote: The large maps we have already been told that there's to much going on with them for it to work well. Was this mentioned for Project Legion or for Dust? Because of the platform, Dust had memory issues that unabled the developers to add further complexity into the overall enviorment, but is that still a problem in the pc architecture land? I think it was mentioned from an exploitable standpoint in both games. Areas being to flat for sniper nests or to compact to escape from heavy's. PC would be a nightmare on the right planets! But I don't find this to much of a problem in the example of a dead-space complex, It's much more of a manufactured setting anyway (long metal corridors) and would by default be a much more even playing field.
That kinda seems they're taking away variety in terms of locations because of a gameplay issue that perhaps could be fixed through some other means, but good to know, thanks for the info!
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lateris ablon
Commando Perkone Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.07.02 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just how far down the path are we going into MMO territory such as being able to go to every planet surface that is mapped in New Eden? I can see procedural generation working for that design concept but does that stray away from being a FPS? Or does it add to the FPS experience where it resembles more of Eve? That could be a huge leap forward for the salvaging concept as PvE. How do you do this with a small team working on a FPS?
ATC
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Dnaizohd Orlenaard
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Interesting questions raised.
- Perhaps not all planets should be accessible at launch, since a couple of them actually contain settlements, cities, whatever you wanna call them (from a Lore perspective), while others aren't just colonized. I'm thinking these ones are "the easiest's" to create thanks to Procedurally generated content.
- As far as, how far CCP should go into the MMO territory, quite franquily I think Dust should stay away from the generic typical mmo's out there (theme parks) and should focus more in what EVE is all about (and much more!): creating a living breathing universe where you are given the tools and not TODO lists (+50 points for a kill! as an example ). The great thing about EVE is not only can you define your goals and things that you wanna do, but also the freedom of choice.
- Procedural generated content is also good in terms of where npc's would spawn and how certain locations dynamically can change. This is important for PVE, and also exploration and other aspects aswell.
- As for Open world PVP, defintely, but unfortunatly it's not an easy thing to do, as Syeven mentioned, it can be used as an exploit (being free to play).
Obviously, this is just my opinion
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Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
730
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Posted - 2014.07.06 20:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dnaizohd Orlenaard wrote:Interesting questions raised. - Perhaps not all planets should be accessible at launch, since a couple of them actually contain settlements, cities, whatever you wanna call them (from a Lore perspective), while others aren't just colonized. I'm thinking these ones are "the easiest's" to create thanks to Procedurally generated content. - As far as, how far CCP should go into the MMO territory, quite franquily I think Dust should stay away from the generic typical mmo's out there (theme parks) and should focus more in what EVE is all about (and much more!): creating a living breathing universe where you are given the tools and not TODO lists (+50 points for a kill! as an example ). The great thing about EVE is not only can you define your goals and things that you wanna do, but also the freedom of choice. - Procedural generated content is also good in terms of where npc's would spawn and how certain locations dynamically can change. This is important for PVE, and also exploration and other aspects aswell. - As for Open world PVP, defintely, but unfortunatly it's not an easy thing to do, as Syeven mentioned, it can be used as an exploit (being free to play). Obviously, this is just my opinion
In effort to not make the universe seen lifeless only a few planets will be accessible at launch, not sure how there going to wing it though, whether the planets will only be used for PC, if we will be able to freely deploy to them, I'm unsure.
I do agree with you that procedurally generating planets for exploration proposes/ PvE only could go well, but again not sure how there handling deployment.
Some very good points listed.
Twitter MajLagSpike
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
2857
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Posted - 2014.07.07 15:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
From my understanding, procedural generation was a goal with DUST, and they likely wasted a lot of development times on it to not reach a marketable product.
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Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
804
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Posted - 2014.08.01 11:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:From my understanding, procedural generation was a goal with DUST, and they likely wasted a lot of development times on it to not reach a marketable product. Lets hope there able to build on it for Legion, its a great tool that in the end would only serve to save time on their behalf.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2174
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Posted - 2014.08.01 14:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:From my understanding, procedural generation was a goal with DUST, and they likely wasted a lot of development times on it to not reach a marketable product. True, last i heard they were taking another look at it, but that was a long time ago and according to Rouge the past is dead and the history books were all thrown in the bonfire.
It is what CCP originally promised for DUST. It is a tough technical problem, though.
If we keep in mind that this is a company that couldn't execute on core fps mechanics, procedural map generation is prolly a technical bridge too far for them. It does suck the realism and romance out of what DUST/Legion could be.
On a side note, New Eden itself really needs some kind of procedural background in place to bring the universe to life. Currently in EVE the actions of the players are taking place against an essentially static and meaningless painted backdrop that is called 'New Eden'. Without players in it it's a dead, static object and not inspiring or interesting at all.
It's not an idea i've ever seen get any traction at all in Reykjavik, maybe the time is ripe to push for this again, if No Man's Sky is a success.
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Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
809
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Posted - 2014.08.03 09:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: True, last i heard they were taking another look at it, but that was a long time ago and according to Rouge the past is dead and the history books were all thrown in the bonfire.
It is what CCP originally promised for DUST. It is a tough technical problem, though.
If we keep in mind that this is a company that couldn't execute on core fps mechanics, procedural map generation is prolly a technical bridge too far for them. It does suck the realism and romance out of what DUST/Legion could be.
On a side note, New Eden itself really needs some kind of procedural background in place to bring the universe to life. Currently in EVE the actions of the players are taking place against an essentially static and meaningless painted backdrop that is called 'New Eden'. Without players in it it's a dead, static object and not inspiring or interesting at all.
It's not an idea i've ever seen get any traction at all in Reykjavik, maybe the time is ripe to push for this again, if No Man's Sky is a success.
CCP have no problem with coding for PC's because they face far less restrictions than they do with the PS3, which is great! And core mechanics are pretty different than building a procedurally generated environment so that shouldn't hinder things :) Hopefully like you say they should be able to make a push for this again.
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