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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.06.30 03:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:I hope this gets done while I'm still vaguely interested in Dust.
I'd like to see STB back fighting for the Minmatar ...... you guys were a good fight back in the day.
" We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.06 06:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Okay this is my kind of discussion.
For those who don't know I have been an avid Factional Warfare player for a very long time and have more recently also taken to EVE as well to fight further for my chosen Faction.
Now while I understand this is a discussion purely about what can be done to improve the state of Factional Warfare in Dust with minimalistic changes I have to make one of two comments about perhaps the way things are in EVE, or how they feel in EVE.
With this being said I am all for making Factional Warfare a more viable and enticing game mode. Prior inception of Dust side Loyalty points PIE Inc ground forces would regularly see themselves involved in long sessions of pretty bitter fighting against a number of enemy Loyalist corporations. However since the introduction of LP those groups have all but left the mode for PC and or choose public matches over FW ques.
This is also partially due to the mode not feeling rewarding.
FW as a Rewarding Gamemode
To make FW more populated players need to feel like their efforts are rewarded and currently it does not feel like the efforts put into FW are ever truly worth it for the average player, beyond the modes semi organised and semi competitive state.
Most players don't truly get to understand their effects of FW, or even what their battles mean for pilots, so while it makes it a primary effort for group like PIE Inc to fight and win their ground battles as well as provide orbital support......it doesn't mean much to other groups.
On a regular basis I might commit several HAV and dropsuits.
Proto Commando- 200K+ ISK
HAV- 500K+ ISK
My payout for this game mode is 500LP...... that would buy me 4 + the ISK required Imperial Complex Armour Plates. I use almost 2 per suit. That is not an equal reward for the efforts I and many others put in for their chosen faction.
How to Fix the Issue and Possible Concerns
To fix the issue the rewards must make players feel like their contributions are worth while, their action are significant, and the rewards they can draw from the battle are worth queuing for.
Introducing ISK as a reward will not do this. I feel it will either
-Not be enough to entice players into FW
-Or be too much and make Public Matches redundant.
Neither will aid the game mode at all since no value means no players, and too much value means farmers and AFKers.
I would suggest simply increasing the LP pay outs to start with. Find a niche that makes FW worth playing. If 500 isn't enough perhaps you could double the rewards to 1000 LP for the winner and 200 LP for the loosing side (a fair number for the kills they secure in the name of their faction).
With boosters that makes 1250 LP for a win and 250 LP for a loss.
This means with ISK I can now buy 10 Imperial Complex Armour Plates for that LP cost + ISK.
Please feel free to discuss and or critique these values ( I typically am not one for numbers ).
Beyond FW and Significance of FW
One thing that will draw players into FW is a feeling of significance.
Not every corporation can be a part of Planetary Conquest and not all of them are content with being relegated to instanced and unimportant battlefields.
In order for players to feel a part of Factional Warfare and to experience the significance of their actions I would suggest that a number of thing be looked at either for future development (unlikely as that is) or for integration in Legion.
The first is related FW statistics and Overlay
The Overlay would indicate which faction owns the system and reflect the system wide level of contestation as determined by EVE players Plexing efforts as well as when a system is vulnerable or stable, this being something I do not feel is adequately reflected. Additionally the system and district wide contestation values would then be represented below that.
In regards to the statistics I feel like players should have access to more information regarding the FW system. Statistics that indicate how we have affected the overall meta game from aiding in deplexing systems to making them vulnerable, not just this but also over all WP gains form the militia's, individual corporations, players, etc. Battles won and Lost, efficiency ratings.
Implementation of the Tier System as a LP Modifier
In EVE LP gains from plexing are divided in twain.
Offensive Plexing- More Risk, in enemy held system, higher pay out.
Defensive Plexing- (Arguably) easier, in a friendly system, less pay out.
I suggest that when players fight in future or are given the opportunity to engage in an offensive contract they are rewarded more for it, being more aggressive, and trying to win back lost ground. While at the same time defensive plexing results in less LP as a whole but ensures the system is keep stable.
Additionally the tier systems in my opinion is a wonderful thing.
It allows factions to fortify themselves in systems and garner bonuses by having something to spend their WP on. resulting in what can only be considered an investment both financially and personally in the success of the Militia as a whole.
Militia as a Community
I personally love the idea of a sign on Miltia. While I suppose its a little restricting the Miltia is a Community, they are your allies and they are people as dedicated to the friendly militia's success. Reinforce the idea Militia as a community a microcosm of the player base with a unified cause and purpose.
Let Militia's talk shop about how they plex, when they plex, which system are most important, etc, etc.
These are just a number of discussions and suggestions..... and I am always interested in discussion FW and its advancement.
*"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.06 07:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Read, and agree that FW rewards need to be better than public matches due to higher risk. Very glad to hear. Not only does this reward greater risk, but it would encourage higher tier players to play FW instead of pubstomping.
I'm very ambivalent towards that statement.
It not that they need to be better, its that they need to be different and of value.
*"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.06 20:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
An increase to LP pay outs will help......
But as several people as said above LP means nothing to players if there is nothing of worth to buy. So giving players something different stat wise or visually might be a successful way to encourage more people to join.
However another issue arises when one Factions loyalty store is simply better than its counter part so I would say fleshing them out as much will their appropriate content is a must.
*"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.06 22:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
I personally have 80,000LP.
All of that was saved for the express purpose of LP Amarr HAV. This won't occur within Dust 514 ever....... thus I should have no incentive to fight for the Amarr as I am throwing materials at something that gives me no reward.
I do however fight out of a sense of loyalty to the Amarr....... but all in all I am throwing my ISK, somehow remaining ISK stable, at a gamemode that provides me with absolutely no reward.
If a Khanid Tank (alt colour Caldari hull HAV with a focus on Armour) were implemented I'd have a reason to spend my LP.
Another huge issue I see is the inherent imbalance between Caldari/Gallente Warzone and the Amarr/Minmatar. Vehicles users are almost actively punished for using vehicles in the latter warzone as there is no way to recoup the losses in the LP stores.....nor will there be.
*"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.09 20:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:The dark cloud wrote:What? People play FW? I gave up on that cause i dont want to wait a half hour to get into 1 match. That's a symptom, not the problem itself. Fix the problem of facwar being damning to lose, high risk / low reward and the symptom clears right up. I know right, getting a measly 60 LP or so for a loss is painful and frankly a slap to the face.
But why should you be rewarded if you fail?
"So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Read, and agree that FW rewards need to be better than public matches due to higher risk. The original poster forgot to account for something that "might" happen later on down the road to make this small amount of LP reward worth 10 times or more than it is now. If the game stays as it is now without any sort of open market for players to buy/sell/trade items (to include the FW variants of the items), then yes I would agree that the current FW payouts are a joke. However IF we open up a player driven open market where the only source for FW equipment is from LP payouts in FW matches... Then the value of LPs will become 10 times or more what they are now. So please be very VERY careful of changing the FW payout now if you only intend to later implement an open market also. You could end up killing the market before it ever opens.
Hmmm you make a fair point. I think the current exchange of LP for ISK is something like 1000 ISK to 1 24th Imperial Crusade LP.
"So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:True Adamance wrote:But why should you be rewarded if you fail? Better question is, why should someone who AFK's in the MCC get the same reward that I get, even though I'm gaining WP's and trying to play the objective?
Thats a non issue.
AFKing has nothing to do with LP payouts. Combating AFKing is its own issue......
"So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
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