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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
561
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Posted - 2014.06.23 18:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've noticed a few people complaining about these suits as of late, the consensus seems to be that they're horrible in every way and completely outdone by the Caldari and Gallente scouts, and for the most part, I'd be inclined to agree. Now, don't get me wrong, I love these guys, and I love speed tanking, but there are a few things that really hold them back on the battlefield.
The powergrid seems to be the main culprit, being lower than all the other scout suits, but with 81PG and a load of CPU, this shouldn't necessarily be a problem; and yet, it is. What makes this an issue is the Minmatar specialization. The Caldari and scanning and shield tanking, the Gallente have armor and regen tanking, and the Amarr... um... something, something... brick tanked light assaults, I don't know... The Minmatar however are designed for speed. You can fit them differently, you can even brick tank them, but by doing so, you're forfeiting now one, but all three of the suit's greatest strengths, whereas brick tanking a Caldari or Gallente suit has no real negative consequences, doing so with a Minmatar effectively ruins the suit. Playing the suit to its' greatest strengths however, is difficult due to the intensely high PG cost of their greatest asset; Kinetic Catalyzers. These little gifts to the Minmatar are absolutely wonderful, but they're currently one of the most PG intensive modules on the market.
If you choose to speed tank a Minmatar suit (And I'm talking balls to the wall speed tanking, three complex kincats) That's 45 PG, more than half your powergrid gone in an instant. You get the maximum speed for your efforts, but you've completely given up your ability to be dampened from the average Caldari scout, you've given up all armor possibilities, and you've given up your scanning range for this ability. Now, you just have your high slots remaining, three of them at advanced and proto. You could try to use those for precision enhancers, or even damage modules, but what's the point in running precision enhancers on a suit with no range amplifiers? Damage modules are completely outdone by shield extenders, and shield rechargers, quite frankly, are useless on a suit that already has 40hp/s on its' recharge rate. So that just leaves extenders. You can fit three complex extenders, giving you (with a few max core skills) around 343hp. But wait, that's 33 PG on top of 45PG already being used for your Kincats. You're now at 78PG, and low and behold, you haven't even fitted a weapon or equipment. Let's not forget that one of your bonuses are for Nova Knives, the lowest of which that can still be effective costs 6PG at advanced and 8PG at proto.
Alright, so we take an extender off, or lower it to a basic module or even a precision enhancer, thus allowing for the placement of a basic or advanced combat rifle, or perhaps a basic assault rifle or something of the sort, as well as our Nova Knives. We've now got a fitted suit... albeit one with very low health and no equipment whatsoever, but at least we can fit it to its' strengths. To do this, however, we're giving up a massive amount of possibilities including armor, armor repair, profile dampening and shield regulators.
The solution that seems to be the most mentioned is increasing the suit's PG and nothing more. While I don't think this is a bad idea, I think it would take away the uniqueness of the suit, as well as encourage people to do what is already done with the Gallente scouts; Brick tanking. And so, with this in mind, I suggest giving the Minmatar not a buff to PG to bring them in line with the other suits, but a buff specifically to the modules that they use most, kinetic catalyzers... (Or perhaps a change to all biotics for the Minmatar scout, or even all suits) A bonus that reduces the PG costs on kinetic catalyzers or all biotics would increase the suit's usefulness in its' intended roles while helping to avoid the issue of brick tanked cloaked scouts, and while it would leave them still being one of the lesser desired of the three scout suits, it would at least allow them to perform in the field that they were designed for without making them "OP"
Perhaps 5% to 8% per level on PG reduction added in, without taking away their current bonuses. The suits have more than enough CPU to work with, so there's certainly no need to touch that area.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
564
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL;DR added, Za'ki. ^~^
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
564
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Or simply reduce pg use on shield extenders, which needs to happen anyway.
I'm not all that familiar with the troubles of the Caldari, though I've never had a problem fitting plenty of shield extenders myself, or seen any of the scout suits or others who had any issues. If anything, I'd say reduce the fitting costs on the recharge and regulation modules, make it so they're desirable, instead of just stacking all the extenders possible. That's an issue for another day though, and one I won't try to debate without more experience towards the race's suit selection.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
564
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Posted - 2014.06.24 08:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:So you want to pigeon hole a Minja into speed tanking...
Does the galscout's bonus FORCE it to fit dampeners? No, actually it allows it to fit less.
Does the Calscout's bonus FORCE it to stack scan mods? Well it's recomended, but not stacking them lets it still use the bonus.
So what if i want 280 armor and a rep of 6.25 on my Minja? So what if i want to STACK SCAN MODS to be a higher ranged Calscout?
We should give it the +5 pg, along with Pg reductions in Shield mods.
Besides, which bonus would you swap out for the Kincat bonus... The Hack bonus? It's the only suit designed to hack, and ruinsthe entire reason many people specced it. Making it replace the Nk bonus is well... Moronic at best. It's LITERALLY the entire reason the Minja exists, even from Day 1.
Just leave the bonuses.
Not at all. I specifically stated to leave the other bonuses. A bonus to kincats would be so small, I doubt anyone would complain if the suit had one more bonus, seeing as it's already underpowered compared to the others. If it couldn't be left in such a way, then yes, the PG bonus would be best, but I am in no way suggesting to rework the suit by switching out this bonus for the ones it currently possesses.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
564
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Posted - 2014.06.24 08:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:I heard that cardiacs aren't even useful on Minmatar, which I think is sad, because it sounds like it's merely just a fitting problem.
I think the Scout should be just like the Logi. It's given more slots than any other race because of its HP sacrifice for speed. Why not just give it another low slot like Amarr?
Personally I don't follow the whole brick tanked scout thing. I rarely have a problem killing them, even with an Assault Rifle.
I don't see why the fastest suit in the game shouldn't be able to "tank" ferroscale armor because it's more like "glass cannon" tanking.
Half of the reason that although I want to skill into the suit very badly, I'm skeptical, is because you can't even fit what the suit is designed for without leaving yourself vulnerable to easy mode Calamari scans.
Why NOT give Minmatar more PG and an extra low slot? I don't understand why you are a Minja and being so humble that you don't even want your UP suit buffed.
An extra slot could be interesting, though the suit was never really designed to for armor. On most fits, a reactive plate will more than suffice, even a basic or enhanced, but at the moment, there's rarely room. I doubt CCP would give the suit a slot there though, even if such a thing would likely just balance it out.
+1 for not following the FoTM, and for wanting to skill into the Min scout, though I'll say this now. If you're worried about trying to outdo the Caldari or Gallente scouts at what they do best, you're better off going with one of those two other scouts. The Minmatar doesn't have the capability to outscan or outstealth either of these two suits, and even fitted specifically for the job, it can never truly compete in those areas. Don't let that get you thinking that the suit can't do well in those fields, because it can, but it will never outdo the other scouts in their own fields. If you are seriously debating the suit though, I'd recommend getting at least advanced Nova Knives first if you don't already have them. Play around with them, make sure you like em, if you don't, I can't recommend the Minmatar scout, but if you enjoy Nova Knives, I'd say don't hold back. It's a helluva fun way to play, but you have to keep in mind that you're a bit locked into the knives on the min scouts. Oh, and you're definitely going to need a lot of your core skills maxed out, all the E-Ware skills and such, as well as the PG and CPU skills. If you're ever looking for fits as well, feel free to send a message in game or ask here. ^~^
As for the last bit... Eh, it's a combination of things, I suppose, the first of which is that I've already seen the suit get a massive buff. The prototype Minmatar scout used to only have 270CPU and 71PG (Both with maxed skills) with a slot layout of 3/2. It was outdone even before 1.8 by the Gallente scout, and by no small margin. The extra equipment slot added was also a major buff to see, even though all the scouts got the same slot layout, seeing all those buffs rolled into one update was and still feels quite big. I guess I just don't really feel like the suit needs anything major, but like the Amarr scout, it could use some tweaks. I'd also say I don't want to see it become another FoTM, as impossible as that sounds. I can't help but enjoy the fact that I'm one of the few Minmatar scouts running around the battlefield... or maybe I just like making people eat my Dust, I'm not quite certain.  Then again, I suppose there is a bit of worry that it could be buffed to a great extent and then nerfed into the ground, something CCP seems to do on occasion. *Shrugs* I guess I'm just satisfied with it for the most part. I wouldn't really mind either way if it got buffed or not as I have loads of fun with my Minja already, but I still wouldn't mind seeing it get a little tweak or two to make it easier to do what it does best.
Hope that clears everything up. Cheers. 
P.S. Oh, and Cardiac regulators really aren't necessary on a Min scout. Sure, you can use them, but there's no point as the suit already has the highest base stamina regeneration in the game and a very large stamina pool to boot. Kincats are the only way to go for the low slot biotics. If you need proof, grab a regular basic light frame and test it out, you'll be amazed at the difference when comparing it to other suits.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
565
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:What about just boosting the effect of kincats overall by a bit, and leaving the PG where it is?
I believe it was mentioned a few times that there's actually a speed cap set into the game because it literally can't keep up with someone going over that 11.1(something something) sprint speed. Not quite sure how all that works, but unless the cap was removed, I think just buffing the kincats could break something. I can't point to any dev posts on this though, and I'm not even sure where it spawned from, so a bit of research could be in order.
Oh, and Rattati, why not go with the sidearm bonus that has been proposed? Perhaps keep the stamina bonuses, but add on a scrambler pistol bonus as well, ROF and damage perhaps, or just damage, like the Minmatar has for the knives? I love the way the Amarr scout looks and I think it's probably one of the coolest, aesthetic wise, available. However, there's just no reason to use them for me, even though I really like the way the proto variants look. A scrambler pistol bonus wouldn't lock the suit into any roll, but it would give them an advantage in close range with what is currently one of the best sidearms available. Most scouts are currently using shotguns or knives for CQC, but the scramblers have that 400% headshot multiplier. Their disadvantage is still against heavily armored targets though, so perhaps a flat out damage bonus equivalent to a few complex damage modules or something of the sort would work. Maybe a small speed buff as well. I know these two bonuses would send me into the Amarr scout role as soon as I had the SP, especially with the ability to do 500+ damage with headshots in close quarters.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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