DUST Search - Why I Don't Want Marauders Back.

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Takahashi Kashuken wrote:

Infantry - STD/ADV/PROTO - This is what infantry gets, a straight upgrade from the next suit

Vehicles - STD - This is it, that is all vehicle pilots get to choose from a STD hull which is completely nerfed when compared to the old STD hulls of the 5/2 layout but we cant have anything better because thats not fair to infantry

Split turrets again idea - So it takes 2 players to use a vehicle, will it take 2 players to use your logi suit? will it take 2 20mil SP vehicle pilots to use this vehicle? who skills up what? does the vehicle get extra bonuses since it takes 2 to use it? who calls it in? who pays for it? who skills up for it? do i get a vehicle lock? Will it take 2ppl to use a FG or SL or a PLC?

Cant scream for tiercide for one playstyle when the other playstyle ignores it

Takes two players to use a vehicle that takes two players to destroy.

Presumably one of them would pay for it. I imagine that a reasonable relationship would involve the gunner paying for half and the driver paying for the other half.

I am personally of the opinion that both of them would share passive bonuses like ADSes do now (although balanced with that in mind, unlike ADS).

Think of it more like an LAV.

I'm screaming tiericide for infantry too, believe me.

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Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3706	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:05:00 - [1] - Quote A flat upgrade to a solo HAV means AV's either boned once one comes out to play, like a lion playing with its cubs, or alternatively it's rebalanced so's Basic HAVs are stomped, like an ant's nest under the gentle caress of a group of twelve-year-olds. Marauders cannot come back in their old form without ruining the partial balance we've achieved (well, FGs have) through such blood, sweat and years (was a typo, but I'm keeping it). They would need some serious reworking to be balanced upon rerelease. (I'm a fan of separated turrets and massive EHP buffs, combined with small DPS nerfs. Then a split turret Enforcer could come back as the reverse to ruin them). CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Yoma Carrim Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 579	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:20:00 - [2] - Quote We know Marauders can't come back in like they were. It was the reason they were removed in the first place. I would like to see Marauders returned with lower bass speed than STD HAV's and a 4% natural resistance to shield or armor perl skill lvl not both. Enforcers I would like to see return as fast attack HAV's higher bass speed, lower health, but a 3% buff to turret damage per skill lvl. But that's just my opinion. Oh Heck
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11045	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:36:00 - [3] - Quote I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3706	Posted - 2014.06.23 11:00:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:19:00 - [5] - Quote Infantry - STD/ADV/PROTO - This is what infantry gets, a straight upgrade from the next suit Vehicles - STD - This is it, that is all vehicle pilots get to choose from a STD hull which is completely nerfed when compared to the old STD hulls of the 5/2 layout but we cant have anything better because thats not fair to infantry Split turrets again idea - So it takes 2 players to use a vehicle, will it take 2 players to use your logi suit? will it take 2 20mil SP vehicle pilots to use this vehicle? who skills up what? does the vehicle get extra bonuses since it takes 2 to use it? who calls it in? who pays for it? who skills up for it? do i get a vehicle lock? Will it take 2ppl to use a FG or SL or a PLC? Cant scream for tiercide for one playstyle when the other playstyle ignores it
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3708	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:19:00 - [6] - Quote Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Infantry - STD/ADV/PROTO - This is what infantry gets, a straight upgrade from the next suit Vehicles - STD - This is it, that is all vehicle pilots get to choose from a STD hull which is completely nerfed when compared to the old STD hulls of the 5/2 layout but we cant have anything better because thats not fair to infantry Split turrets again idea - So it takes 2 players to use a vehicle, will it take 2 players to use your logi suit? will it take 2 20mil SP vehicle pilots to use this vehicle? who skills up what? does the vehicle get extra bonuses since it takes 2 to use it? who calls it in? who pays for it? who skills up for it? do i get a vehicle lock? Will it take 2ppl to use a FG or SL or a PLC? Cant scream for tiercide for one playstyle when the other playstyle ignores it Takes two players to use a vehicle that takes two players to destroy. Presumably one of them would pay for it. I imagine that a reasonable relationship would involve the gunner paying for half and the driver paying for the other half. I am personally of the opinion that both of them would share passive bonuses like ADSes do now (although balanced with that in mind, unlike ADS). Think of it more like an LAV. I'm screaming tiericide for infantry too, believe me. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
GeneralButtNaked Fatal Absolution 1220	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:42:00 - [7] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3713	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:03:00 - [8] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? The whole point I'm trying to make is that you don't have to. Describe to me a way to balance those vehicles to current AV without returning us to 1.6 where the only viable tanks were the most expensive ones, or to 1.7 where infantry AV stands literally no chance. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Beld Errmon 1697	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:07:00 - [9] - Quote its never gunna happen so why bother arguing for or against? any content updates like that will only come as a trickle down from legion* *if it happens, eve themed fps is looking less and less likely. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
Void Echo Total Extinction 2612	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:15:00 - [10] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Infantry - STD/ADV/PROTO - This is what infantry gets, a straight upgrade from the next suit Vehicles - STD - This is it, that is all vehicle pilots get to choose from a STD hull which is completely nerfed when compared to the old STD hulls of the 5/2 layout but we cant have anything better because thats not fair to infantry Split turrets again idea - So it takes 2 players to use a vehicle, will it take 2 players to use your logi suit? will it take 2 20mil SP vehicle pilots to use this vehicle? who skills up what? does the vehicle get extra bonuses since it takes 2 to use it? who calls it in? who pays for it? who skills up for it? do i get a vehicle lock? Will it take 2ppl to use a FG or SL or a PLC? Cant scream for tiercide for one playstyle when the other playstyle ignores it Takes two players to use a vehicle that takes two players to destroy. Presumably one of them would pay for it. I imagine that a reasonable relationship would involve the gunner paying for half and the driver paying for the other half. I am personally of the opinion that both of them would share passive bonuses like ADSes do now (although balanced with that in mind, unlike ADS). Think of it more like an LAV. I'm screaming tiericide for infantry too, believe me. ok then lets say this ever happened in the past. As a result of the sever lack of balance this idea purposes tankers respond in kind by having CCP make Dropsuits only operate when 3 people are controlling them. 1 person to move the legs. 1 person to aim. 1 person to shoot. think about it then come back and let me know if splitting a person asset with someone with no benefit is fair and actual balance. Closed Beta Vet. Playstation 4 or nothing CCP. Only the strongest can do good and the weakest do evil. - Void Echo

Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5379	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:20:00 - [11] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? Every other vehicle (aside from assault dropships, which need to be removed) has split turrets. Maybe give enforcers driver controlled turrets, but make HAVs consistent with everything else. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Void Echo Total Extinction 2612	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:25:00 - [12] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? Every other vehicle (aside from assault dropships, which need to be removed) has split turrets. Maybe give enforcers driver controlled turrets, but make HAVs consistent with everything else. every other vehicle besides the ADS isnt designed for facing the enemy head on. to separate the turret from the seat would not only destroy the tanks only real reason to skill into it but would make it extinct in the process. Reply to the bolded statement: This game isnt about purely infantry, you really just hate anything thats different from how you want this game to be played. I suggest you go play cal of duty, thats the game you would want to be playing since there are no vehicles. Closed Beta Vet. Playstation 4 or nothing CCP. Only the strongest can do good and the weakest do evil. - Void Echo
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2579	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:27:00 - [13] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: A flat upgrade to a solo HAV means AV's either boned once one comes out to play, like a lion playing with its cubs, or alternatively it's rebalanced so's Basic HAVs are stomped, like an ant's nest under the gentle caress of a group of twelve-year-olds. Marauders cannot come back in their old form without ruining the partial balance we've achieved (well, FGs have) through such blood, sweat and years (was a typo, but I'm keeping it). They would need some serious reworking to be balanced upon rerelease. (I'm a fan of separated turrets and massive EHP buffs, combined with small DPS nerfs. Then a split turret Enforcer could come back as the reverse to ruin them). actually if these basic hav's are getting murdered by AV again it's time to bring out a better hav, that way those that invest sp can perhaps do a bit better, while the scrubs in militia tanks get rolled.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5380	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:10:00 - [14] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? Every other vehicle (aside from assault dropships, which need to be removed) has split turrets. Maybe give enforcers driver controlled turrets, but make HAVs consistent with everything else. every other vehicle besides the ADS isnt designed for facing the enemy head on. to separate the turret from the seat would not only destroy the tanks only real reason to skill into it but would make it extinct in the process. Reply to the bolded statement: This game isnt about purely infantry, you really just hate anything thats different from how you want this game to be played. I suggest you go play cal of duty, thats the game you would want to be playing since there are no vehicles. If it takes 2 AVers to destroy an HAV, which it does most of the time, it should take 2 to operate one. Vehicles, no matter what role, have always been about teamwork- a standard dropships with only a pilot can't do **** without jumping out, and the same goes for a standard LAV with only a driver. Dropships, if used correctly, which they never are, actually are about facing the enemy head-on. Want me to drop 4 HMG sentinels on your head with 2 more firing missiles at you? pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:33:00 - [15] - Quote I think it's balanced if you sacrifice all hopes of defense and mitigation on a Chomo-era Soma to insta-pop a Sagaris or Surya. Of course infantry won't see it as balanced to see one hulking beast destroy another. Infantry wants to be the only ones to counter tanks, though they'd rather tanks not exist in the first place, because their AR can't destroy them.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5380	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:53:00 - [16] - Quote JudgeIsABadPilot wrote: I think it's balanced if you sacrifice all hopes of defense and mitigation on a Chomo-era Soma to insta-pop a Sagaris or Surya. Of course infantry won't see it as balanced to see one hulking beast destroy another. Infantry wants to be the only ones to counter tanks, though they'd rather tanks not exist in the first place, because their AR can't destroy them. Most infantry I've seen don't even try to counter tanks, so that can't possibly be true. The thing with AV infantry is that they want to solo HAVs; personally, I think that all depends on how effective HAVs are. The current HAVs are as effective as 2 infantry, yet only needing one person to operate it. That's why I believe HAVs need the main turret separated from the driver. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1890	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:23:00 - [17] - Quote It takes 1 player to kill a tank, it's just that tankers that aren't brain dead move to covdr, and thus require 2 people to try and kill. Same with Sentinels. It takes 2 people to kill them, unless that sentinel is brain dead or you catch him in the open. People are complaining that my tank is able to live when your AV shoots at me? 1 person CAN kill me, that's why i ran. Why doesn't a shotgun scout stand in the middle of 3 enemies and try to spin around shotgunnin them? Because he'd die. Against a GOOD scout, it takes either: The scout making a mistake Or 2+ people coordinating to kill him. Marauders need to return, but they need to just be high EHP, low speed/regeneration, and low damage. The lows can be achieved through simply not bonusing them, while bonusing the other hulls to make them the 'high's. Enforcers are long ranged, so they deserve range and damage bonuses, while being 'marginally' slower/weaker, but maybr having a secondary bonus applying to regeneration(Falchion gets Shield recharge rate or Booster Efficacy, while Vayu's get a bonus to Armor Repair efficacy.) We could have another type, the Demolisher, which is a CQC oriented brawler tank, designed to be a hard counter to Marauders. Example bonuses: Role bonus- RoF bonus to large turrets Racial: efficacy to Hardeners or Damage Mods. General John Ripper -HAM(Yum) This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Non-Association Foster Care Office
DEATH THE KlD Harem. King 0	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:28:00 - [18] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? Every other vehicle (aside from assault dropships, which need to be removed) has split turrets. Maybe give enforcers driver controlled turrets, but make HAVs consistent with everything else. Unfortunately other vehicles are meant for transportation.. Your argument is flawed.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5381	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:32:00 - [19] - Quote DEATH THE KlD wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: I have to say Lorhak I completely oppose the split turrets thing. Why? Because I skilled into tanks. I skilled into turrets. I skilled into all my vehicle skills to 5. I did not do these things to just drive. But if you think this is a good idea, surely the equivalent would be logis with no weapon right? To encourage teamwork? Every other vehicle (aside from assault dropships, which need to be removed) has split turrets. Maybe give enforcers driver controlled turrets, but make HAVs consistent with everything else. Unfortunately other vehicles are meant for transportation.. Your argument is flawed. LAVs are scout vehicles, while dropships are COMBAT transportation; like a carrier. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè


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