DUST Search - [Suggestion Hotfix Charlie] Suit optimization and balance

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

@ CCP Rattati,

It caught my eye that you found the idea of adding bonuses to frame suits as a means of optimization or adding some depth to game play.

Making basic frame suits give you a return on investment instead of the simply leveling to III and access to specialized suits has long been a topic and I would like to get the ball rolling a little and gauge the community and Dev interest in pursuing this in an upcoming Hotfix.

Proposal: the frame bonus is carried over to the specialized suits so... Lvl III medium Frame and Lvl V assault gets the combined benefits of the bonuses. Very similar system in EVE and makes medium Frame SP sink actually valuable. Initially, i recommend not adjusting the current role and racial bonuses for the suits but only add the frame bonus, assess, then go from there.

Example Caldari Medium Frame / Specialized Frame:

Caldari medium frame gets: 2% max shield HP per level and 10% charge time reduction to hybrid-rail LW / Sidearms

Caldari Assault gets: Current hybrid-rail reload and CPU/PG reduction for LW bonus per level

Caldari Logi gets: Current nano hive bonus and CPU/PG reduction for equipment per level (secondary note...really should include nanite injectors in the bonus - separate discussion though)

What do you guys think about tackling this for Hotfix Charlie? What are your recommendations for frame bonuses for the different racial frames?

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Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1153	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:46:00 - [1] - Quote @ CCP Rattati, It caught my eye that you found the idea of adding bonuses to frame suits as a means of optimization or adding some depth to game play. Making basic frame suits give you a return on investment instead of the simply leveling to III and access to specialized suits has long been a topic and I would like to get the ball rolling a little and gauge the community and Dev interest in pursuing this in an upcoming Hotfix. Proposal: the frame bonus is carried over to the specialized suits so... Lvl III medium Frame and Lvl V assault gets the combined benefits of the bonuses. Very similar system in EVE and makes medium Frame SP sink actually valuable. Initially, i recommend not adjusting the current role and racial bonuses for the suits but only add the frame bonus, assess, then go from there. Example Caldari Medium Frame / Specialized Frame: Caldari medium frame gets: 2% max shield HP per level and 10% charge time reduction to hybrid-rail LW / Sidearms Caldari Assault gets: Current hybrid-rail reload and CPU/PG reduction for LW bonus per level Caldari Logi gets: Current nano hive bonus and CPU/PG reduction for equipment per level (secondary note...really should include nanite injectors in the bonus - separate discussion though) What do you guys think about tackling this for Hotfix Charlie? What are your recommendations for frame bonuses for the different racial frames? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 28	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:52:00 - [2] - Quote So you have to run the medium frame level V ? To me : With our assault, we must have our own gameplay (shield, armor or both) Ok the idea (each racial suit has its own weapon bonus) but, consequently, you must learn to play with each suit if you want to play with each weapon, and so with too gameplay... A bonus which could be interessant is to have a bonus only for the suit For example : Amarr : stays like now Minmatar : 10% reduction in waiting time reloading shield a level Caldari : 10% faster reload shield a level Gallente : 5% efficiency armor repairer a level Amarr => his bonus is good, like before, like today, like tomorrow (with his scrambler) Minmatar => he has 5 hight slot (proto), so he has to play a lot with the shield. The minmatar is the fastest race, so he has to have a very fast regulation. Hide 2 seconds, your shield come back With this way, the time reloading shield must be improved : 4seconds and 6 seconds Caldari => The shield suit. He isn't very fast, but he has to play with his shield. Imagine : 30hp/s + 50% = 45hp/s It can be very interesting for the caldari. With an energizer, you can recover a lot of shield. You can have a recovering (almost) as fast as the Caldari scout. So, it would be very interesting. Gallente => Imagine you have your prototype suit : you put 2 complex armor repairer. 7.5hp/s + the passive bonus = 9.38hp/s x 2 = 18.76 You add 25%. 18.76 x 1.25 = 23.45p/s (and add the passive repairer). At the end, you can have 25.45hp/s It's amazing, isn't it ? I think it's. What do you think about ? Sorry for my bad English, I try to do my best ! Big smile
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1153	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:59:00 - [3] - Quote Doesn't drive you to have only Lvl V at all, Coys. Basically, you get the run things exactly as you do now (however that is) but you will get an additional bonus for the appropriate level of Basic Frame you are skilled into IN ADDITION to the specialized bonuses you get. Theory is that you received a benefit for all your SP invested into ANY level under the dropsuit command tree. As to the rest of your feedback, there are some interesting ideas in there but i think it's a little off topic of the OP. Might be that I didn't clarify it enough. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Dalmont Legrand RUST 415 RUST415 461	Posted - 2014.06.22 21:10:00 - [4] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: @ CCP Rattati, It caught my eye that you found the idea of adding bonuses to frame suits as a means of optimization or adding some depth to game play. Making basic frame suits give you a return on investment instead of the simply leveling to III and access to specialized suits has long been a topic and I would like to get the ball rolling a little and gauge the community and Dev interest in pursuing this in an upcoming Hotfix. Proposal: the frame bonus is carried over to the specialized suits so... Lvl III medium Frame and Lvl V assault gets the combined benefits of the bonuses. Very similar system in EVE and makes medium Frame SP sink actually valuable. Initially, i recommend not adjusting the current role and racial bonuses for the suits but only add the frame bonus, assess, then go from there. Example Caldari Medium Frame / Specialized Frame: Caldari medium frame gets: 2% max shield HP per level and 10% charge time reduction to hybrid-rail LW / Sidearms Caldari Assault gets: Current hybrid-rail reload and CPU/PG reduction for LW bonus per level Caldari Logi gets: Current nano hive bonus and CPU/PG reduction for equipment per level (secondary note...really should include nanite injectors in the bonus - separate discussion though) What do you guys think about tackling this for Hotfix Charlie? What are your recommendations for frame bonuses for the different racial frames? How about creating T2 version of those suits with bonuses, with higher ISK costs. The best is yet to come CPM1 Candidate
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1153	Posted - 2014.06.22 21:16:00 - [5] - Quote The Specialized Frames (Logi, Assault, Commando, Sentinel) are effectively already T2 suits. What's missing from the formula is the Frame bonus added to the equation. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1372	Posted - 2014.06.23 02:34:00 - [6] - Quote What they need to do is separate the two bonuses the specialized suits get onto the basic frame skill and the specialized skill. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Emo Skellington The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 80	Posted - 2014.06.23 02:58:00 - [7] - Quote +1 Supporter of Legion Supporter of Valkyrie Supporter/Fan of Eve
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2151	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:49:00 - [8] - Quote I think there are a couple of goals I think we should try to meet here. Make SP spent on Frame Suits mean more than just unlocking the specialty suit Make Frame suits feel like they are a more generalized suit Make Frame Suits more useful than the specialty suits in cases where flexibility is necessary. Make Specialty suits be a big upgrade in their specific role, but a small nerf in other areas that fall outside the specialty, thus making Specialty NOT a straight upgrade from Frame. So to start, I completely agree that the Frames need a bonus, and that bonus to a degree needs to be transferred over to the Specialty suits, not only to make the specialty suits more useful, but to also give people an incentive to level them to 5. Let me be clear, I'm a big fan of having the specialty suit being unlocked at Frame Level 3, but by giving the Frame bonuses that also apply to the specialty, you encourage leveling 4 and 5. Again keeping with the concept that we want the Frame suits to be general use, but still useful, we should give them bonuses that are general use, but make sense for that particular frame of suit. When those bonuses transfer to the specialty suit however, they should affect that specific specialty and not maintain the general use bonus, as to allow frame suits to do things that specialty suits can not. One idea I've been tossing around is giving fitting cost reduction bonuses to frame suits. They would be broad bonuses which would help newer players while they unlock more suits, but also allow veterans to do special fits that may not be available on specialty suits due to resource limitations. However when applied to the specialty suits, the fitting bonus should only be for that specialty, I wont go into all of the variants right now, but here is a general idea of what I'm thinking (Minmatar for example). Medium Frame Suits: +% Reduction to PG/CPU Cost of Shield & Armor Modules/Level of Medium Frames +% Reduction to PG/CPU Cost of Light Weapons/Level of Medium Frames Minmatar Logistics Suits: +% Reduction to PG/CPU of Equipment / Level of Medium Frames (You can see the theme of resource cost reduction is maintained, but only applied to the aspects of Logistics, instead of a general bonus) +% Efficiency of Equipment / Level of Logistics +% Range/Repair Rate of Repair Tools / Level of Minmatar Logistics Minmatar Assault Suits: +% Reduction to PG/CPU of Light Weapons & Sidearms / Medium Frames (Again the philosophy of resource cost reduction is maintained but is made less general and more specialized) +% Light Weapon & Sidearm Damage / Level of Assault Suits +% Magazine Capacity to Minmatar Weapons / Level of Minmatar Assault Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 30	Posted - 2014.06.23 08:01:00 - [9] - Quote It's a good idea ! While I was reading your post, I wondered how you'ld do to make a good concept. Done . Just to know how you think, for the Caldari, would it be the same ? Medium frame suit : +% Reduction to PG/CPU Cost of Shield/Level of Medium Frames specific medium frame bonus => +% Reduction to PG/CPU Cost of Light Weapons/Level of Medium Frames Assault : +% Reduction to PG/CPU of Light Weapons & Sidearms / Medium Frames +10% faster reload shield a level (sorry, I would so much enjoy this bonus ) +5% range of rail weapon/level (yes, the assault suit bonus need to be changed for the Caldari...)
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 30	Posted - 2014.06.23 08:11:00 - [10] - Quote Sorry for dp! So if you use the assault suit, do you have to skill the medium frame to get an other bonus? For example : if you want to play with the minmatar assault, is it useful to skill the medium frame to have they bonus? I think it isn't a good idea, but I'm not in your mind lol ^^

Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1164	Posted - 2014.06.24 13:54:00 - [11] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Sorry for dp! So if you use the assault suit, do you have to skill the medium frame to get an other bonus? For example : if you want to play with the minmatar assault, is it useful to skill the medium frame to have they bonus? I think it isn't a good idea, but I'm not in your mind lol ^^ If you want the max bonus then yes you do have to skill into both the Frame and Specialist suit. Think of the Frame suite skill as a generic understanding / ability with the racial frame of your choice (i.e. Caldari Medium Frames). That bonus, based on how much you level it to, would remain when you choose to use Assault or Logi specialist frames, which are still Caldari Medium Frames. This is pretty much exactly like it works in Eve with ships. Effectively you get a Racial bonus, Frame Bonus, and Specialist bonus. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen


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