DUST Search - No railgun, no vehicle balance

Void Echo wrote:

Thumb Green wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Thumb Green wrote:

Takahashi Kashuken wrote:

You realize infantry pushed and pushed and pushed for all these changes to vehicles

It always amazes me how asinine the things you say can be Taka; seriously what deranged world are you living in?

it really was a combination of HAV operators wanting to not be as squishy against pre 1.6 AV (and undeniably they sure as **** were) and AV adamant arguments that their Armour clad counter parts needed drastic alterations of increased durability was given.

The result mixed with CCP's changes, made with good intentions, saw the power gap wider in favour of HAV....and the horrific age of Armour we have just experienced.

No it really wasn't. There were a few AV'er saying vehicles needed to be tougher but it was overwhelmingly vehicle users that were demanding changes. Infantry sure as hell didn't ask for vehicles to be buffed into demigod mode while at the same time nerfing AV to near uselessness. Infantry didn't ask for the only effective AV against basic vehicles to be proto AV or for the rail turret to be nerfed at all either. Vehicles are how they are now because of vehicle users.

That is actually a mostly false statement.

The Forum War between Tankers and Infantry that lasted for a year was because Tanks were almost impractical to use in battle other than to **** around with. In Corp battles they weren't even used as a main battle force, they were pulled out to destroy whatever vehicles the enemy brought in.

This escalated when Uprising build hit and Tanking was nearly made extinct because of the lack of survivability and usefulness that CCP forced upon us because infantry wanted a Dust 514 to be a futuristic version of Call of Duty. When Uprising hit Tanks lost their survivability and ended up being destroyed so easily that they made scouts look like heavies. You could set up a nanohive behind a wall and wait for the tank to get next to it and just spam 3 AV grenades and that would be it. The Assault forge gun could fire FASTER and with MORE DAMAGE than the most advanced prototype Large Rail Gun Turret, leaving tanks to hid behind the redline. Our survivability had been severely cut down to lower than that of a scout suit going up against a squad of heavies. Redline Railing (one of the most infamous playstyles of Dust 514) was born as a result of Tankers scrambling to find a way to survive and still hit hard with their tanks. Not to mention the severe crippling weight of ISK a single tank would cost, almost 1.5 Million ISK used to be the cost of a standard fitted tank and that wouldn't even stand a chance against a single AVer.

When 1.7 hit, I retired as a Tanker because my job was done with that class, I managed along with some support to bring Tanks back from the brink of extinction. So you cant say that I am a tanker scrub because I haven't been a Tanker since 1.7 hit.

Tankers were here on the forums trying to get back their survivability, we NEVER, NEVER said or hinted that we wanted Tanking to be a Godlike class (at least not those of us that the community actually listened to seriously). The ONLY thing we ever wanted, our survivability returned to us, we got back a little more than what we had in mind.

You can even ask other Real Tankers, we never wanted Tanking to be the easy mode it became when 1.7 hit, nor did we want it to go extinct like it almost was since Uprising came. We wanted to be a viable and reliable class that is survivable from AV that shouldn't be able to kill us with a single shot that people wanted on their team.

You see now? Tankers aren't the main cause of what happened when 1.7 hit and the backlash were seeing now, the original problem that caused this all was the old ******** Infantry players that wanted Dust 514 to be a copy of Call of Duty (Some vocal players still want that and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so).


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Gemini Cuspid 109	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:18:00 - [1] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Thumb Green wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Takahashi Kashuken wrote: You realize infantry pushed and pushed and pushed for all these changes to vehicles It always amazes me how asinine the things you say can be Taka; seriously what deranged world are you living in? it really was a combination of HAV operators wanting to not be as squishy against pre 1.6 AV (and undeniably they sure as ** were) and AV adamant arguments that their Armour clad counter parts needed drastic alterations of increased durability was given. The result mixed with CCP's changes, made with good intentions, saw the power gap wider in favour of HAV....and the horrific age of Armour we have just experienced. No it really wasn't. There were a few AV'er saying vehicles needed to be tougher but it was overwhelmingly vehicle users that were demanding changes. Infantry sure as hell didn't ask for vehicles to be buffed into demigod mode while at the same time nerfing AV to near uselessness. Infantry didn't ask for the only effective AV against basic vehicles to be proto AV or for the rail turret to be nerfed at all either. Vehicles are how they are now because of vehicle users. That is actually a mostly false statement. The Forum War between Tankers and Infantry that lasted for a year was because Tanks were almost impractical to use in battle other than to around with. In Corp battles they weren't even used as a main battle force, they were pulled out to destroy whatever vehicles the enemy brought in. This escalated when Uprising build hit and Tanking was nearly made extinct because of the lack of survivability and usefulness that CCP forced upon us because infantry wanted a Dust 514 to be a futuristic version of Call of Duty. When Uprising hit Tanks lost their survivability and ended up being destroyed so easily that they made scouts look like heavies. You could set up a nanohive behind a wall and wait for the tank to get next to it and just spam 3 AV grenades and that would be it. The Assault forge gun could fire FASTER and with MORE DAMAGE than the most advanced prototype Large Rail Gun Turret, leaving tanks to hid behind the redline. Our survivability had been severely cut down to lower than that of a scout suit going up against a squad of heavies. Redline Railing (one of the most infamous playstyles of Dust 514) was born as a result of Tankers scrambling to find a way to survive and still hit hard with their tanks. Not to mention the severe crippling weight of ISK a single tank would cost, almost 1.5 Million ISK used to be the cost of a standard fitted tank and that wouldn't even stand a chance against a single AVer. When 1.7 hit, I retired as a Tanker because my job was done with that class, I managed along with some support to bring Tanks back from the brink of extinction. So you cant say that I am a tanker scrub because I haven't been a Tanker since 1.7 hit. Tankers were here on the forums trying to get back their survivability, we NEVER, NEVER said or hinted that we wanted Tanking to be a Godlike class (at least not those of us that the community actually listened to seriously). The ONLY thing we ever wanted, our survivability returned to us, we got back a little more than what we had in mind. You can even ask other Real Tankers, we never wanted Tanking to be the easy mode it became when 1.7 hit, nor did we want it to go extinct like it almost was since Uprising came. We wanted to be a viable and reliable class that is survivable from AV that shouldn't be able to kill us with a single shot that people wanted on their team. You see now? Tankers aren't the main cause of what happened when 1.7 hit and the backlash were seeing now, the original problem that caused this all was the old ****** Infantry players that wanted Dust 514 to be a copy of Call of Duty (Some vocal players still want that and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so). No it was really the tankers and employing the demigod mode that resulted in where we are now. Take that into the fray of how no other viable means existed without having 1/3 a squad have a combo of railguns, mines and swarms with all hitting at the right time and you're logic is: "it's all of the infantry players fault for not wanting to play against a nearly invulnerable tank" and it's precisely that line of logic that created the hotfixes that made them less resistant to the realities of the game. Yes I've gone up against tanks after it's hit my mines along with decloaking to toss my packed grenades and get 2 proto swarms hit only to see it's armor sink to 60% and that's with the tank not running for cover and just casually strolling by and then see it back to full armor while I reload swarms. This also has less to do with the whole "CoD" players here because it's not really CoD players that dominated Dust514, it was the MAG players firstly and if you didn't even know that fact then you really are clueless about how much of a problem the vehicles were in the game at all and making assumptions about the tanks. On any decent day I can take out a decent or lazy tanker. But it's the ones who had their skills capped that made it nearly impossible and heaven forbid if you got several tanks. I've been in a battle with 5 tanks and that's not anything that most teams can come up against several times and it's very one~sided. And for the record, it wasn't that tankers were utterly useless even before 1.7, it was the whole concept of not deploying the tank into ridiculously crowded and uncovered situations where they were simply easy targets. The fact that you had to actually think when it was best to even deploy a tank in a corp battle made it the exact opposite of CoD. And initially the infantry got the first nerf when it came to anti~vehicle combat when grenade counts for packed and locus grenades went down.