|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10379
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 16:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, after plugging numbers and thinking about scenarios, I have come up with some numbers for the PLC: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-yVmqIS5oV8yROmjxpOSVWFNzlAqbD5g4AabHdwCmEo/edit#gid=0
A few points: I have built these stats with the assumption that the PLC is supposed to be a tank and LAV wrecker only, dropships can escape easily, and are really the realm of the SL and Forge Gun
DPS should be lower than the SL, but sustained DPS should be higher (SL reload)
It pays for it's high alpha with it's range, projectile speed and arc / No lock on
Thoughts?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10380
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 17:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Numbers are probably way too high. SL's get some of their extra damage due to the fact they cannot be used on infantry or neutral installations. And the PLC can't be used on dropships. Fair's fair.
It also has no lockon capabilities, has 1/5th of the projectile speed of the forge, has arc and as a result lower range.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10380
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 17:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:if a dropship is moving and at a distance its hell to hit one with a PLC.. leave it as it is..
if a pilot is stupid enough o be moving too slow and too close its their own fault What does that have anything to do with it?
I increased the projectile speed because even against tanks the PLC has difficulty hitting at CLOSE RANGE. Try it, if a tank is moving and is 10m out, you still need to compensate quite heavily. 10m!
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10384
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 20:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Is it wrong that I still have this tiny (if shriveled) glimmer of hope left that AV will one day send LAV's rolling if hit in the side? Sorry, just popped to mind when I saw "explosion momentum".....
This is about what I was thinking when I was saying the PLC should rival the forge in damage potential a few months ago since it has so many other drawbacks and already OHK's pretty much everything anyway. (and everyone said "~but the forge is a heavy weapon~")
If you can push it through, I'm behind it.
~Overlord
Edit: 120m/s might be a bit much though from the anti-infantry side of things. I don't think it is. Even a forge gun with 5x the speed can miss in CQC if the enemy is strafing and you release the trigger right when they're on it. It actually requires a bit of compensation.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10390
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 05:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:Cat Merc wrote:So, after plugging numbers and thinking about scenarios, I have come up with some numbers for the PLC: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-yVmqIS5oV8yROmjxpOSVWFNzlAqbD5g4AabHdwCmEo/edit#gid=0A few points: I have built these stats with the assumption that the PLC is supposed to be a tank and LAV wrecker only, dropships can escape easily, and are really the realm of the SL and Forge Gun
DPS should be lower than the SL, but sustained DPS should be higher (SL reload)
It pays for it's high alpha and DPS with it's range, projectile speed and arc / No lock on
Thoughts? I feel all it really needs at this point is a projectile bonus, I mean when put in the hands of a commando the alpha damage vs vehicles is ridiculous. I'm fully capable of soloing armor or shield tanks running an adv PLC on an adv commando. Uhh... What? I had tanks just laugh off the damage while I put round after round into them while they were standing still.
That's a prototpye PLC in a Gallente Commando.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10390
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 05:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Is it wrong that I still have this tiny (if shriveled) glimmer of hope left that AV will one day send LAV's rolling if hit in the side? Sorry, just popped to mind when I saw "explosion momentum".....
This is about what I was thinking when I was saying the PLC should rival the forge in damage potential a few months ago since it has so many other drawbacks and already OHK's pretty much everything anyway. (and everyone said "~but the forge is a heavy weapon~")
If you can push it through, I'm behind it.
~Overlord
Edit: 120m/s might be a bit much though from the anti-infantry side of things. I don't think it is. Even a forge gun with 5x the speed can miss in CQC if the enemy is strafing and you release the trigger right when they're on it. It actually requires a bit of compensation. But you are forgetting it has significant splash damage. I don't know the travel time of it's projectiles, but the Breach MD has a splash radius of only 3m whereas this weapon has a splash of 3.5m with much more damage output (not even mentioning it's ability to AV). If you are going to up it's speed, damage AND reload speed, you are going to need to at least cut it's blast radius in half. Dude, it only has one shot in the clip. Sure, I cut down the reload time, but that's still 3.35 seconds between shots.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10390
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 08:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Is it wrong that I still have this tiny (if shriveled) glimmer of hope left that AV will one day send LAV's rolling if hit in the side? Sorry, just popped to mind when I saw "explosion momentum".....
This is about what I was thinking when I was saying the PLC should rival the forge in damage potential a few months ago since it has so many other drawbacks and already OHK's pretty much everything anyway. (and everyone said "~but the forge is a heavy weapon~")
If you can push it through, I'm behind it.
~Overlord
Edit: 120m/s might be a bit much though from the anti-infantry side of things. I don't think it is. Even a forge gun with 5x the speed can miss in CQC if the enemy is strafing and you release the trigger right when they're on it. It actually requires a bit of compensation. But you are forgetting it has significant splash damage. I don't know the travel time of it's projectiles, but the Breach MD has a splash radius of only 3m whereas this weapon has a splash of 3.5m with much more damage output (not even mentioning it's ability to AV). If you are going to up it's speed, damage AND reload speed, you are going to need to at least cut it's blast radius in half. Dude, it only has one shot in the clip. Sure, I cut down the reload time, but that's still 3.35 seconds between shots. Yes it is, but it's also going from "Oh look, a shooting star...." speed to "It's coming right for us!" speed. Increasing it's projectile speed alone is cause enough to reduce it's radius as it cuts down on your need to compensate for enemy movement. You have a lot more here than a change in projectile speed. I don't feel shaving off 1m of splash to make up for your enemy's reduced reaction time is asking too much. I really like the PLC and want it to be effective, but I also don't want it to become TOO easy to use. I don't want it becoming the next FotM weapon. I'm not saying your changes would cause this, but we've all seen how small changes can throw something into FotM status and these changes give a guaranteed OHK upon hit even on the tankiest sentinels despite resistances. 120m/s ranged OHK shotgun with a blast radius basically. I'm just asking you reduce the blast radius to help cut back on spam. I just don't believe it will become an issue, that's all.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10391
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 09:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Plasma Cannon is in a good place right now with the direct damage buff and the reduction in fire interval from 1.5 seconds to 0.5 seconds. CCP also feels this is the case and hence noe more buffs or changes will come to the PLC which I agree with. As seen on this postCCP Rattati wrote:no nerfs, no buffs, no variants planned If they believe that, they don't know balance. It's simple.
It cannot kill some tanks that are sitting still! A proto PLC, Galmando bonus, Prof II, damage mod, still not enough?
Hitting with the PLC is infinitely harder than with the Forge or the Swarms, and yet the damage it does is only a fraction.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10391
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 10:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Cat Merc wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Plasma Cannon is in a good place right now with the direct damage buff and the reduction in fire interval from 1.5 seconds to 0.5 seconds. CCP also feels this is the case and hence noe more buffs or changes will come to the PLC which I agree with. As seen on this postCCP Rattati wrote:no nerfs, no buffs, no variants planned If they believe that, they don't know balance. It's simple. It cannot kill some tanks that are sitting still! A proto PLC, Galmando bonus, Prof II, damage mod, still not enough? Hitting with the PLC is infinitely harder than with the Forge or the Swarms, and yet the damage it does is only a fraction. I have prfi 5 gallamando 3. Running dual Allotek PLC. Trust me the damage is there, it all depends on how you want to use the weapon. that's 3k damage base on direct shot to a tank and 626 base damage splash against infantry. It's more than enough to get things done. And even if you can't kill a tank, av isnt meant to solo tanks Then how do I solo tanks with a swarm launcher? Everything else is exactly the same, I just switched my PLC for a swarm launcher.
It takes a lot less effort, and it is infinitely more effective.
I'm sorry but there is no justification.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10391
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 11:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Swarm launcher has no anti infantry capabilities; that's why it does what it does.
And the plasma cannon can't hit dropships with any sort of consistency, same for LAV's.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10391
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
And it's not like it's anti infantry capabilities are any better than a simple SMG
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10393
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 17:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Okay, I very much disagree with your intentions with the spike damage. I would much prefer a magazine size increase over a massive damage buff.
Your PLC is hitting for 1801.8 damage, which increases to 2081.08 including maxed GalMando and a single Complex Damage Mod. A Gunnlogi has 2650 base shields. At maxed proficiency, this rounds out to 2632 damage against shields in a single shot.
Essentially, your PLC will two-shot a huge number of Gunnlogi fittings, assuming you're using dual PLCs. If you've a swarm in the other slot you'd likely be able to solo most vehicles without too many issues.
It's not reasonable to say 'but it has a short range' either. HMG has a short range.
Rather than the huge damage buff you're proposing, I'd suggest a DPS increase via magazine size or reload speed, rather than a flat damage bonus.
Finally, it's unreasonable to equate "can't kill infantry" with "can't consistently hit dropships".
They're very different things. It can't kill dropships. It takes the stupidest dropship pilot in existence to be killed by a plasma cannon. Hitting a dropship once in a blue moon doesn't mean a kill, it can still take two more shots for the most part.
It also has extreme difficulty taking out LAV's, as it can take three shots to take one down. Even a single hit with the PLC is quite difficult.
Now, as far as the "Swarm Launcher as a secondary", you do understand you're talking about having two AV weapons, right? Two swarm launchers are just as deadly, in fact more so, as you can shoot three times with the swarm and switch back to shoot three more times. Swarms will do more upfront damage, but less when counting the reloads, so when you have two swarms, that's already stronger AV.
AV is strong when you bring multiple, it's not true just for the PLC, it's true for everything.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
|
|
|