DUST Search - The New Dim World of PC with Hotfix Bravo

deezy dabest wrote:

Hawkin P wrote:

PC is now generally unprofitable, you win a PC battle and you may making a little more then you would of farming ISK in ambush, over the same amount of time. You lose a PC battle and the players end up losing 20-30mil ISK in Dropsuits, Tanks, and ADS.

So in order to make any profit most corps will attack down the food chain, attack corps they know they can beat. The price of clone packs doesn't matter, because you can buy a district for less then the price of a clone pack. Soon no one will even want to buy a district corps will be giving them away for free, and they will be a hard sell even at that price because corps will get tired of being farmed for ISK. Smart corps will eventually not even bother to take districts from other corps BC that way they can just farm them again when the clones build back up.

OH yeah NTM now there is Locking/Farming 2.0. Corp A attacks Corp B; defending corp no shows; and gets 20 mil a battle, they can swap districts back and forth endlessly. Making up to 60 mil a district. This will probably be patched but in a way that makes PC even less profitable for the players.

So, taking away passive ISK solved 1 problem, but CCP's poorly thought out fix, caused many others. Another big problem is CCP has now removed the drive for anyone to want to take a district. Their is no benefit for taking a district, and this new PC just feels very, meh IDC.

Just proving more and more why PC needs to be removed in favor of corp battles with a simple ranking system that has weekly, monthly, and all time leaderboards. The higher ranking of the corp you beat the more points you get.

I think the most annoying part of PC is the fact that you can not just hop in battle. Initiating a battle then waiting 24-36 hours for one battle at a certain is a pain in the ass.

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Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 422	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:14:00 - [1] - Quote PC is now generally unprofitable, you win a PC battle and you may making a little more then you would of farming ISK in ambush, over the same amount of time. You lose a PC battle and the players end up losing 20-30mil ISK in Dropsuits, Tanks, and ADS. So in order to make any profit most corps will attack down the food chain, attack corps they know they can beat. The price of clone packs doesn't matter, because you can buy a district for less then the price of a clone pack. Soon no one will even want to buy a district corps will be giving them away for free, and they will be a hard sell even at that price because corps will get tired of being farmed for ISK. Smart corps will eventually not even bother to take districts from other corps BC that way they can just farm them again when the clones build back up. OH yeah NTM now there is Locking/Farming 2.0. Corp A attacks Corp B; defending corp no shows; and gets 20 mil a battle, they can swap districts back and forth endlessly. Making up to 60 mil a district. This will probably be patched but in a way that makes PC even less profitable for the players. So, taking away passive ISK solved 1 problem, but CCP's poorly thought out fix, caused many others. Another big problem is CCP has now removed the drive for anyone to want to take a district. Their is no benefit for taking a district, and this new PC just feels very, meh IDC.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 654	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:50:00 - [2] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: PC is now generally unprofitable, you win a PC battle and you may making a little more then you would of farming ISK in ambush, over the same amount of time. You lose a PC battle and the players end up losing 20-30mil ISK in Dropsuits, Tanks, and ADS. So in order to make any profit most corps will attack down the food chain, attack corps they know they can beat. The price of clone packs doesn't matter, because you can buy a district for less then the price of a clone pack. Soon no one will even want to buy a district corps will be giving them away for free, and they will be a hard sell even at that price because corps will get tired of being farmed for ISK. Smart corps will eventually not even bother to take districts from other corps BC that way they can just farm them again when the clones build back up. OH yeah NTM now there is Locking/Farming 2.0. Corp A attacks Corp B; defending corp no shows; and gets 20 mil a battle, they can swap districts back and forth endlessly. Making up to 60 mil a district. This will probably be patched but in a way that makes PC even less profitable for the players. So, taking away passive ISK solved 1 problem, but CCP's poorly thought out fix, caused many others. Another big problem is CCP has now removed the drive for anyone to want to take a district. Their is no benefit for taking a district, and this new PC just feels very, meh IDC. Just proving more and more why PC needs to be removed in favor of corp battles with a simple ranking system that has weekly, monthly, and all time leaderboards. The higher ranking of the corp you beat the more points you get. I think the most annoying part of PC is the fact that you can not just hop in battle. Initiating a battle then waiting 24-36 hours for one battle at a certain is a pain in the ass. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 423	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:01:00 - [3] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Just proving more and more why PC needs to be removed in favor of corp battles with a simple ranking system that has weekly, monthly, and all time leaderboards. The higher ranking of the corp you beat the more points you get. I think the most annoying part of PC is the fact that you can not just hop in battle. Initiating a battle then waiting 24-36 hours for one battle at a certain is a pain in the ass. That might be cool, but that would require CCP to do more than a hotfix. More work than they want to put into dust. NTM it would be even more unprofitable, and getting players that want to do that would be hard. It would be great for training new players though.
Cody Sietz Sver true blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3388	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:05:00 - [4] - Quote I just hate that people are farming PC to get a butt-ton of isk before they hop ship to Legion. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8798	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:29:00 - [5] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I just hate that people are farming PC to get a butt-ton of isk before they hop ship to Legion. Agreed. At least with the current system in place, farming ISK is now almost impossible. This is good because then that's less ISK flooding the market once the characters get ported over to Legion assuming CCP is even kind enough to let you transfer the ISK over. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8798	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:32:00 - [6] - Quote The solution to this new problem would have been to replace the passive ISK generation with the ability to harvest materials and fuels and then manually sell them in the secondary market to other district holders who might need them. But since we now know that's no longer going to happen for Dust and is instead going to Legion, I don't know what to say about this. I'm starting to think Corp Battles are better now for Dust. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 336	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:32:00 - [7] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I just hate that people are farming PC to get a butt-ton of isk before they hop ship to Legion. I very much doubt ISK and assets will be taken across. If they are then CCP has learned nothing and Legion will fail just as hard.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3533	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:39:00 - [8] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I just hate that people are farming PC to get a butt-ton of isk before they hop ship to Legion. I can't see CCP bringing over all the ISK from Dust, that would potentially break the game from day one because it would be impossible to build a reasonable economy with such instant wealth disparity. Arguably that's even worse than bringing over everyones SP, because basically once you hit maybe 20 mil, there's a pretty big plateau in terms of how much "better" you get. Whether or not you have 30 or 50 million SP really just means you can use more stuff, the 20 mil difference is nothing compared to the much smaller difference between 5 and 15 mil, even 5 and 10 mil. Also, other than having more HP and a bigger gun to kill them with, it doesn't affect other players directly. ISK on the other hand, scales the same no matter what, and the differences are far greater. People starting on day 1 with 5 billion (or more) ISK would immediately corner the market on any number of items and kill the economy before it started. My guess is that (assuming CCP can transfer anything they want in any fashion) there will be either a cap on how much ISK you can transfer over, or all long-time Dust players will start with the same amount, like 50 million or whatever. Or maybe give a starting wallet equal to your total SP? That would reward time and effort in Dust more than it would farming PC. (The godfather of tactical logistics) Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 880	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:11:00 - [9] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Hawkin P wrote: PC is now generally unprofitable, you win a PC battle and you may making a little more then you would of farming ISK in ambush, over the same amount of time. You lose a PC battle and the players end up losing 20-30mil ISK in Dropsuits, Tanks, and ADS. So in order to make any profit most corps will attack down the food chain, attack corps they know they can beat. The price of clone packs doesn't matter, because you can buy a district for less then the price of a clone pack. Soon no one will even want to buy a district corps will be giving them away for free, and they will be a hard sell even at that price because corps will get tired of being farmed for ISK. Smart corps will eventually not even bother to take districts from other corps BC that way they can just farm them again when the clones build back up. OH yeah NTM now there is Locking/Farming 2.0. Corp A attacks Corp B; defending corp no shows; and gets 20 mil a battle, they can swap districts back and forth endlessly. Making up to 60 mil a district. This will probably be patched but in a way that makes PC even less profitable for the players. So, taking away passive ISK solved 1 problem, but CCP's poorly thought out fix, caused many others. Another big problem is CCP has now removed the drive for anyone to want to take a district. Their is no benefit for taking a district, and this new PC just feels very, meh IDC. Just proving more and more why PC needs to be removed in favor of corp battles with a simple ranking system that has weekly, monthly, and all time leaderboards. The higher ranking of the corp you beat the more points you get. I think the most annoying part of PC is the fact that you can not just hop in battle. Initiating a battle then waiting 24-36 hours for one battle at a certain is a pain in the ass. You could do this by differentiating the disticts by value. There will be a Golden District that everyone wants and whoever has it is the best. It is a type of unregulated tournament. Because, that's why.
Cpl Foster USMC The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1003	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:29:00 - [10] - Quote as far as bringing assets and isk to Legion....well that's a pipe dream...crack pipe dream.. we'll get some Beta codes and a Dust 514 'been there, done that' fancy colored suit and they'll beat their drums that they even gave us that much... stop complaining about Valid Tactics and kill those bastards....you bastards

Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1595	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:30:00 - [11] - Quote they just need to bring back corp contracts so we can battle over however much we want whenever we want with whoever we want...delete pc...problem solved
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5874	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:43:00 - [12] - Quote Why anyone is overly concerned about monopoly money at this stage of the game I have no idea. You should be participating in PC because you want to fight not because you want to make isk. Be there for the fights not the isk. What are you spending all your isk on people? What is there? What are you hording your isk for? So what if you lose isk? It's not real. There's nothing outside of suits and clone packs that you can buy. Why are people so deadset on building mass fortunes of fake money that you can't buy anything with? Fight for the fights. Don't fight for the isk. Isk isn't real. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 128	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:50:00 - [13] - Quote all ccp needed to do was remove locks.... that would have solved all PC problems, because then a corp couldn't hold more than it could defend. but no ccp as always took a simple problem and broke it worse with a complicated solution that didn't work.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 655	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:58:00 - [14] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Just proving more and more why PC needs to be removed in favor of corp battles with a simple ranking system that has weekly, monthly, and all time leaderboards. The higher ranking of the corp you beat the more points you get. I think the most annoying part of PC is the fact that you can not just hop in battle. Initiating a battle then waiting 24-36 hours for one battle at a certain is a pain in the ass. That might be cool, but that would require CCP to do more than a hotfix. More work than they want to put into dust. NTM it would be even more unprofitable, and getting players that want to do that would be hard. It would be great for training new players though. I actually think it would be possible via a hot fix using a modified version of the star map where every corporation is issued a fake district and a battle is accepted and begins once the corporations mutually attack each other. Only the TLO role can initiate a battle. For the ranking system corporations can be given warpoints or at least that is the mechanic to copy over. Once a battle ends you receive the difference of your points if the losing team has a greater amount as a bonus plus a base of 100 points. So for example: Corporation A has 500 "warpoints" Corporation B has 200 Corporation A attacks Corporation B Corporation B receives a notification and attacks corporation A launching the battle. After a hard fought battle corporation B wins. Corporation B receives 100 base points + 300 points (the difference since corporation A had a greater starting score) ISK Payouts are the same as pubs with one exception there is no base pool. Only the ISK destroyed in battle is divided up. SP payouts are ONLY on warpoints, there is no payout for time in battle. Salvage works exactly as in FW. The leaderboard for corporation warpoints becomes points from battle instead of total player points assuming that a new tab can not be added without a client update. In theory this system can be completed with a hotfix since it would not require anything new in the client. Why would CCP spend the time needed for this mode? The amount of information derived from these battles would do wonders for balance. Thanks to the ISK sink lower players would likely use more AUR and FW equipment. Match information server side would do wonders for future changes to battle servers in relation to planetary conquest and stuff. Going to spam this with a thread of its own after all the time I just spent here Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
AToS SaGa III Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 137	Posted - 2014.06.21 18:37:00 - [15] - Quote ^ Interesting. And I highly doubt ISK will be transferred to Legion. CCP doesn't want Nyain San taking 100% control of w/e PC system they implement in Legion. Lol Ask me how much I care and win a cookie!
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 425	Posted - 2014.06.21 21:11:00 - [16] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I actually think it would be possible via a hot fix using a modified version of the star map where every corporation is issued a fake district and a battle is accepted and begins once the corporations mutually attack each other. Only the TLO role can initiate a battle. For the ranking system corporations can be given warpoints or at least that is the mechanic to copy over. Once a battle ends you receive the difference of your points if the losing team has a greater amount as a bonus plus a base of 100 points. So for example: ... Going to spam this with a thread of its own after all the time I just spent here I really like that idea but that cannot be in a hotfix. It requires a different interface, possibly graphics. They said they can only change stats, costs, and numbers.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3294	Posted - 2014.06.21 21:14:00 - [17] - Quote Well if you want to have profit from PC matches then you shouldnt run proto 24/7 in those matches. And ive never lost over 8 mil max in any PC match.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3084	Posted - 2014.06.21 21:38:00 - [18] - Quote The blame should really fall on the CPM this time around. The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. 2878	Posted - 2014.06.21 21:39:00 - [19] - Quote http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf "The DUST 514 Dev Team is not reduced or affected by the restructuring at CCP."
Grimmiers 596	Posted - 2014.06.22 00:09:00 - [20] - Quote It's hard to make pc as meaningful without a player market and resources in the picture yet. A district should be something you want to keep where you can gather resources for eve players. Those resources being sold would be the new passive isk and would be a lot better than npc money being generated. Location is another thing that's lacking, being that it's only in molden heath, there's no sense of feeling safe from a majority of corps in a different region. Dust mercs relying on eve pilots to travel away from solar systems needs to happen and clone packs need a time limit on how often you can buy them to promote moving clones from districts. Then there's the fact that extra clones generated aren't made into assets. When a full district generates clones it should be a Item you can trade, sell, or store as backup clones. Clones that aren't on a district should have an expiration timer on them so you can't just stockpile it become invincible. Expired biomass can either be recycled on a new district type to produce less clones than it started with. Recycling plants could be it's own community service in dust. There's a lot more ideas out there about how resources should work between dust and eve. The other thing is pc battles just aren't available to most of the playerbase. A built in contract system that could make battles more open could help that. It would also be nice to have a merc finder where you can post your availability times, contract history, and stats for pc. This was my idea of how pc battles would end up for dust. I think the best endgame for dust now would to be some player made tournaments hopefully using legions customized battles.

Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 391	Posted - 2014.06.22 00:11:00 - [21] - Quote Uh wasn't that the intent bro? To get rid of passive ISK? Non competitive, whiny mercs ---> public matches Competition, skill increase, **** talking mercs --> PC The choice is yours bro Saying what's on people's minds
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 185	Posted - 2014.06.22 00:27:00 - [22] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The solution to this new problem would have been to replace the passive ISK generation with the ability to harvest materials and fuels and then manually sell them in the secondary market to other district holders who might need them. But since we now know that's no longer going to happen for Dust and is instead going to Legion, I don't know what to say about this. I'm starting to think Corp Battles are better now for Dust. That is the whole idea sold to me back when I saw the old videos announcing dust. Linking it to Eve, making the planets profitable... the market ect. I wanted to take a district that was rich in a resource, extract it and sell it on the market or use it to build something useful for my corp/alliance. Planetary conquest would have been much more than the pissing contest it is right now.


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