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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
545
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Posted - 2014.06.22 04:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
It all starts with a well paved road full of signs, then before you know it.... this. |
Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
545
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Posted - 2014.06.22 18:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Found this strangely appropriate. |
Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
546
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 22:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you folks are reducing EVE to the battle parts, then we-¦re gonna have a bad time.
I LOVE the adrenaline of fighting, but i respect that the ship, modules, rigs and ammo that i use were mined, manufactured and sold by someone(s).
EVE is not 99% boredom to those people, they enjoy the game in a whole different way, a way that COULD be implemented on Legion and bring a public that like games such as Civilization / Masters of Orion / Starcraft / X-Com (the old one) and they would have a TON of fun while the game progresses, all at the same time that people are shooting each other on the face (hopefully, with balanced equip/stats learned from Dust).
Again i have no beef with the person behind CCP Z, but the development ideas showed so far are terrifying in the sense that:
- It doesn-¦t respect internal consistency of the New Eden franchise. If you-¦re new to a different culture, learn it and make some translations before trying to impose your own language.
- His "reluctancy" to talk to people who can provide good feedback (If CPM can-¦t talk to him properly, imagine a the proper forum feedback among a horde of trolls) may indicate a "Solitary Magic Solution" that we know is not very effective these days, or worst, a "Fack it, i-¦m doing my way cause i have a blank check"
- If version 2.0 is a fs far from new eden reality as it appears to be, i don-¦t even want to know what 1.0 was. My inner thinking still goes to "Need For Speed World" (that i played for a few months to be fair)
I know he has his job and have no obligation to talk or give any sort of satisfaction to players, but having "hurt feelings i-¦ll hide in my shell" is not productive, simple as that. Want to have an honest discussion of general ideas on a public space, or want to make videos showing his views and later analyzing feedback on comments? GREAT!
But if you can-¦t take the heat, either HTFU or stop teasing us into thinking we can contribute with things and do your own stuff, present the finished product to the public, and don-¦t complain when reviews come up.
Even with all the things that were said, i still don-¦t know the "Idea" of the game.
From what i got so far, we-¦ll have a resource collection game with player conflict mediated by some sort of trade betwwen players, similar to DayZ, The Forest, Silkroad and competition modes where people shoot each other in the face in "arena" like places.
There are games that do these things already, where is the "uniqueness" of Legion? By that i don-¦t mean doing something that has never been tried before, but simply arranging things in a way that make THIS game something to be played instead of THAT game.
Pointing that doing stuff without communicating with others properly (by that i mean CPM) is a bad bad bad sign, is not an emotional rant.
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
548
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Reducing Dust to the skill tree part will also going to have a bad time as well. The whole 99% boredom comment is a common saying by those in the military to which Eve follows down to a very hard line directly. It is a concept you already understand though so no need to further beat on it. You fully understand that the 99% boredom is in preparation for that 1% sheer absolute terrifying moment.
As for the Skill Tree.
-Your first point lacks examples please iterate MUCH deeper than this.
- Progression is entwined to skill system.
- Unlimited suits is entwined to the "Role" progression that is entwined to the skill system.
- Unlimited suits affects market system
- There is no indication of a logistical chain to supply stuff besides "fully operational item" salvage
- Unlimited suits may be market breaking, may lead to fiscal irresponsability, may lead to lack of strategy, that may lead to a lack of cohesion of groups , that may lead to a breaking on the social aspect of New Eden.
- Unlimited suits may be a game breaking experience like WoW, where a Lvl 100 character can-¦t be killed by 100 Lvl 1 chacarcters.
- Unlimited suits is entiwned with monetization
- Overall game experience is entwined to progression
If it goes the WoW way where i have a class, i-¦m max lvl on a class, and my suit alone is stronger that a fully equipped low level player, that-¦s a game experience that i feel it goes against New Eden and things like Ibis Fleet where i can take 10 - 50 day 1 players in free starter noobships and kill veteran people that played for 5 years in bigger ships.
The market cycle of Mine - Build - Destroy is a fundamental aspect of the New Eden universe, it generates player conflitct to secure places to gather the basic building items, it generates player interaction to make cartels like OTEC to play with universal prices, and would be an excellent feature to implement on a FPSMMORPG.
Shooting without meaning other than the shooting itself have it-¦s public, and it-¦s a valid gamestyle like any other, but for this kind of experience, personally i would go for TF2 that is a lot of fun. A lot of the feedback from players here and in other places, is about persitency. Persistency gives meaning, gives a reason to continue playing, to invest time and money on a game, to play it for years and years no matter how many games are launched.
To have persistency, we would need something to fight for (piece of land - pretty flag - resources (Plantary Interaction) - contracts (EVE players) - stuff) and spend a lot of money and manhours of cohese groups to maintain-conquer-retake. When Dust was presented in 2008-9, all i could think of was "Holy ****, we-¦re having a Xcom/ Masters of Orion / Civilization / Heroes of Might and Magic / Starcraft strategy game like EVE, but with units being played by real players! That-¦s awesome!" All the Warbarge command room pictures gave the
impression that i could be a Commander from my kickass flagship, sending people to their deaths, justified or not, like the Broodwars intro trailer, watching they fight among themelves. While i manage supply lines, equipment storage, financial managment and planetary construction (that has to be built, can be conquered or destroyed), all this integrated with Capsuleers walking on the station enviorment and watching the things too. I don-¦t know any game in the market or on the oven or on the planning board that works like this, and if anyone does, please let me know and i-¦ll go play it right away.
Shooting people with a role unlimited suit, salvaged only equipments, in a non persistent world, may be fun, but is not New Eden.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
-More like he's scared in a corner. It didn't help people threw rotten tomatoes at him on the first day. Not everyone is a Ratti being awesome on day one of doing the whole communication loop.
The flaws on the choice of place and time of the presentation were already discussed. CCP dropped the ball on this one, a shame the tomatoes went to the front line guy instead of the managment.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
-Version 2.0 believe it or not is still more closely aligned with new eden than most people dare imagined. Case in point there is still nothing stopping an idiot making a shield tanked amarrian heavy using anti infantry caldari weaponry and scout modules against matari vehicles.
Long paths to get one item to change paths to get another item was discussed to exaustion already, several models that coinicide with your compromise also.
I-¦m all in favour of an auto-path for newbies, but i want manual overide to make my own choices, even "idiot" ones.
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
548
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
-It is also the community's responsibility to mature and respectful to the developers; I poured through some of the feedback and most of the crap I read was not feed back; most of it was attacks against the developer himself and not even constructively going against the idea either.
I agree, but... internet.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
As for the salvage game mode CCP Wolfman is looking for feedback specifically on how that will play out, CCP Z is not responsible for game modes; nor is this economic model to launch with is his idea in entirety as well. Right now the reason why CCP Z is likely not talking anything about progression is that it is a system that can get trashed easily over and over again. The system he is currently working on is something that needs its backbone done first, secondary market. You have to remember CCP Z's primary task is the economy. Progression is a deep part of it, as a player grows so does their taste in products.
Explained earlier on the Overall game experience is entwined to progression
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Also if you want to avoid emotional ranting avoid thinking works and emotional envokers. The whole HTFU thing was oxymoronic enough.
I-¦m very very sorry for the frontline person that is dealing with the public, but if a company uses a person without the social skills to handle the PR problem, it-¦s a bad managment decision. If the development team say they want feedback, and then disappear at the first sign of trouble, it-¦s a bad PR move.
Professional behaviour. I know and am very greatful that they have absolutely no obligation to even talk to us, but once they decided to do it, there are certain things that will unfollow.
And again, no beef against Julian the person. I played NFSW and had a lot of fun with it, i-¦m sure he know his way on the monetization and am looking foward to it, but it-¦s important to know the universe rules and it-¦s translations prior to implementing your own language on a foreing culture.
Again, managment.
CCP have an AWESOME staff with a bunch of tech wizards (or had, i think MC Peanut was on the last round of cuts), and i-¦ve seen a lot of progression in EVE since 2007, i just hope the same level of improvements on communication-feedback-development-features is imported to Legion, because it sure didn-¦t on Dust.
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
549
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is an AWESOME NPE.
Theory, practice, rewards, and social bonding.
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Dark Taboo
549
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 01:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:
That's some old ****, and I still love it. Was talking to IWS while he was making it, and I realized that I made a although unpolished version, basically the same thing (he got the Vince thing from me :D). That is a Good ******* tutorial, and IWS did a good job making it,
I loved the drawings!
Was this meant for Dust ? WHYYYYYY didn-¦t they implement it?
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