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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
327
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Posted - 2014.06.21 12:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Unless its tanked to the high heavens, dropship should die very easily to a swarm launcher. Especially if the swarm user has 3 damage mods and proficiency 4. ADS do cost too much and the price needs a reduction but you cant argue that because it does its job it needs to be toned down. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
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Posted - 2014.06.22 14:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cos 25m is gonna make swarms so OP. lower the price of dropships and it wont be a problem. I dont care if you cant hit infantry if you are in range i will shoot you. Dont see you complaining about forge guns so why be so against a 25m buff? |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
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Posted - 2014.06.22 14:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jack Galen wrote:I pilot most of the time with an incubus (AV) or a grimsnes (infantry support).
This is the bit I don't understand: Infantry, your suits and weapons cost about ten percent of the cost of an ADS, possibly twenty percent for all you protos, and that's for an ADV ADS, not proto. When you are having a hard time killing it, consider that; the pilot has invested huge amounts of SP and ISK, whereas a militia forge gun on a militia frame can end an ADS quite easily. I am actually very happy with AV at the moment - flying can be easy, unless the enemy work together (wait, what? :P) to take you down. When 2-3 infantry / a rail tank and a forge work together to take me out, I feel that I'm fair game.
What I don't want to see are the return of the days where I lift off and suddenly get mullered by 7 groups of unrendered swarms, 2 forge guns and a rail installation within 5 seconds, every time. :/
One other idea: why can't it be a food chain? Infantry>Tanks>dropships>infantry for example? Aren't some match ups meant to be more one-sided than others? :) My AV fit costs 150k. Unless your dropship costs 1.5 million its not 10 percent. I have invested sp into my suit, equipment guns and other skills i need. I am weak to any form of anti infantry in order to kill you. I will die more than you will trying to get a decent shot. It will be more expensive for me. And as for needing 3 people to kill you that is a farce. In a 16v16 match hqving 3 people out of the fit gives the team a large advantage. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 16:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:My AV fit costs 150k. Unless your dropship costs 1.5 million its not 10 percent. I have invested sp into my suit, equipment guns and other skills i need. I am weak to any form of anti infantry in order to kill you. I will die more than you will trying to get a decent shot. It will be more expensive for me. And as for needing 3 people to kill you that is a farce. In a 16v16 match hqving 3 people out of the fit gives the team a large advantage. My AV fit (STD MinCom/ADV Swarm) costs 20,000 ISK, and while soloing a vehicle is difficult, it is not impossible for me. I realise not everyone runs Commandos, and that is fair, but even a single Swarmer is something for your average ADS pilot to be concerned about. Take a look at the other example: does your Proto heavy cost 4x that of a standard heavy, and should you not have an advantage? You have the better gun, more HP, higher bonuses and just plain more. That Proto heavy does have a significant advantage: the ADS does have a significant advantage over even the most expensive AVer, but for all of that advantage, a single AVer can drop them all the same. I know! I've been on both sides of that equation (albeit not even as expensive as you!) If a half invested AVer can take down ADSs, surely a fully invested AVer can. I don't want to say get good, but how are you approaching Swarm/ADS combat? Are you just launching at first sight? Do you wait and optimise your approach? Do you get behind it, wait til it gets lower for better shots? I still feel the Swarm has a low skill cap (ie, the difference between a poor Swarmer and a great Swarmer is not a large gap) but there are measures you can take to make your attacks more effective. Not all of us have an inherent 10% explosive damage because a suit bonus. If a dropship is near me i try and get a forge to hit it as my swarms are about to hit so it cant get away. The problem i have is that by the 3rd shot the dropship is out of range and can fly away from the 2nd swarm. Its the fact they can outrun swarms that annoys me. The amount of times i should have downed a ds and it outrun my swarms is beyond count. 25m range isnt gonna make a huge difference. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 13:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
the way people are going on is like a dropship should have the same survivability as a tank. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 13:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:all levels are a bit powerful against dropships. they need a slight tone done. I think a 70/70/80/110 might be too far, i'm still running models. Perhaps start with an 80/70/80/120 or even 70/70/100/120. There are a few options. The most balanced are based not on the raw data, but on the realistically available builds.
One of the biggest issues is first mover. Because of the limits of the pilot view and the terrible rendering the first a pilot knows about swarms is when that first volley hits. We then have to react but by then the second volley is on the way. Most swarms get two shots in. That is my experience (recorded and documented) of being a swarmer and a pilot.
Where we are now is 3 volley kills. With two volleys being an almost guaranteed number of hits this is just too much. If rendering was better, or we had lock on warnings, or swarmers were not able to hot and skip and maintain lock, or swarmers lost lock on damage then this might be okay. As it stands now they have too many strength against the dropships defensive weakness. use an afterburner and fly awy, as soon as you get hit activate and you cant be touched. dropships should not be able to sit in an area with near inpunity. the swarm launcher is fine and does not need a change, it already got nerfed once and because it can kill your dropship you want to nerf it again? |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 14:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
then you have to change the damage profile on LAVs. also if 2 swarms leave a python with only 300 armour dont you think that you should be putting more shields on your ship instead of damage mods? you must be able to fit more hp why not do that instead of complaining that you take too much damage? Also changing damage profiles because you take the same amount of damage and have less hp is silly, by that logic scouts have less hp than a heavy so should take less damage from guns. see the flaw in that? As for the afterburner thing. if you get hit and activate the afterburner the third swarm will not hit you, i know it wont, i have seen pilots do it. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens Final Resolution.
328
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 14:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:the way people are going on is like a dropship should have the same survivability as a tank. If its a transport centric one such as logistics or standard then hell yeah it should have MORE survivability than a tank. A tank is a single man operable vehicle, it does not require more than 1 person to utilise it in order to be effective. A transport dropship however requires AT LEAST 3, and that is just to be a poor representation of a Helicopter Gunship, the main role of a dropship is to transport troops. Therefore you give more survivability because your not gonna convince 6 people to get into a flying steel coffin. troop transports are supposed to get to the LZ drop the troops off and get out of there. Not stay there for 5 minutes taking swarm after swarm and surviving. |
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