DUST Search - Three-Man Tanking

Pvt Numnutz wrote:

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Atiim wrote:

From my experience, 20GJ Railguns are much more effective than Small Missile Launchers.

It's basically a full-auto Sniper Rifle that rips everything to pieces, and it's accuracy isn't much of a problem if the people in your HAV aren't total scrubs. Not to mention that while Missiles require you to time your shots carefully due to the long reload and travel time, 20GJ Railguns have a near-instantaneous travel time (possibly hit-scan?), with a [relatively] short reload time.

As for a DPS, two 20GJ Particle Cannons adds 1,508 DPS, which doesn't seem too bad when you consider the fact that most HAVs tout about 5200 eHP.

But they're not valuable. (Also I have issues with lag + rails considering I play with Europeans on their servers; missiles tend to be easier for laggy situations)

What can I do in a particle cannon strapped to a tank that I can't do with my rifle on the point better?

I'm reminded of something SoTa PoP said once when tower-forging was a thing: "why deny from a limited FoV like a rooftop when, with my HMG, I can deny anywhere?".

That they add DPS is not disputed, but they don't particularly add important DPS, and I'd still be better off forging things what with having higher spike damage and a different angle from the tank, and also not dying if the tank does.

Speak for yourself mate, they are incredibly valuable for missile tanks. Since I can't waste missiles on infantry I need anti infantry support on my tank, not next to it. Even if my gunners aren't shooting they can be looking for av threats or in the over view looking for other tanks and directing me behind them, it is so incredibly important to get the drop on other tanks, doubly so for shield tanks.
If I find myself fighting a shield tank that extra rail dps is the most important due to the way missiles operate and their damage profile.

In a particle cannon strapped to a tank you can one-two shot most suits and provide valuable cover fire for advancing or defending friendlies. You can also get out of the tank to support on the ground if needed and have your tank buddy give what support he can.

Tank gunners and operators have a lot to learn, my python crew doesn't even need to think about these things, they simply recact as the situation demands, this applies to both my python and my gunni boy.


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Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3632	Posted - 2014.06.19 19:00:00 - [1] - Quote I spent the last four hours skirmishing in a three-man Gunnlogi fitted with an 80GJ Particle Cannon and a variety of small turrets, most successfully XT-1 Missiles. In every match we comfortably, almost lazily, pulled two-three orbitals across our four-man squad (the other member of which was in an XT-201 Missile Gunnlogi). We lost a single triple-turret HAV, and one XT HAV. All in all, the fittings themselves were highly successful (judging by our bittervet tanker standards, which is to say not dying). But we lost practically every match. We'd have been far better off has those two HAVs been bare of turrets and fitted for tank, with the two of us pushing on foot, or even just in our own HAVs. Why bother with small turrets when the cost is so large? If small turrets add little to no value to the outcome of a skirmish match, why fit them? They're less efficient than a gun on the ground; they're worse at killing than a rifle, and worse at AV than an FG. They serve very little purpose, aside from the exceedingly high DPS they can unleash in the hands of skilled ADS crews. There is no real value to employing 'teamwork' with a HAV. Our survivability was cut dramatically (both lows were filled with CPU mods instead of valuable tank), and our DPS wasn't increased by a relevant margin, one that might outweigh the disadvantages. Especially when taking into account the incorrect damage profiles of rails, and considering the amount of armour we could've stacked in the low slots. Why use small turrets when they're so pointless? Fun, but pointless? CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3637	Posted - 2014.06.20 03:36:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim wrote: From my experience, 20GJ Railguns are much more effective than Small Missile Launchers. It's basically a full-auto Sniper Rifle that rips everything to pieces, and it's accuracy isn't much of a problem if the people in your HAV aren't total scrubs. Not to mention that while Missiles require you to time your shots carefully due to the long reload and travel time, 20GJ Railguns have a near-instantaneous travel time (possibly hit-scan?), with a [relatively] short reload time. As for a DPS, two 20GJ Particle Cannons adds 1,508 DPS, which doesn't seem too bad when you consider the fact that most HAVs tout about 5200 eHP. But they're not valuable. (Also I have issues with lag + rails considering I play with Europeans on their servers; missiles tend to be easier for laggy situations) What can I do in a particle cannon strapped to a tank that I can't do with my rifle on the point better? I'm reminded of something SoTa PoP said once when tower-forging was a thing: "why deny from a limited FoV like a rooftop when, with my HMG, I can deny anywhere?". That they add DPS is not disputed, but they don't particularly add important DPS, and I'd still be better off forging things what with having higher spike damage and a different angle from the tank, and also not dying if the tank does. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3638	Posted - 2014.06.20 05:05:00 - [3] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: From my experience, 20GJ Railguns are much more effective than Small Missile Launchers. It's basically a full-auto Sniper Rifle that rips everything to pieces, and it's accuracy isn't much of a problem if the people in your HAV aren't total scrubs. Not to mention that while Missiles require you to time your shots carefully due to the long reload and travel time, 20GJ Railguns have a near-instantaneous travel time (possibly hit-scan?), with a [relatively] short reload time. As for a DPS, two 20GJ Particle Cannons adds 1,508 DPS, which doesn't seem too bad when you consider the fact that most HAVs tout about 5200 eHP. But they're not valuable. (Also I have issues with lag + rails considering I play with Europeans on their servers; missiles tend to be easier for laggy situations) What can I do in a particle cannon strapped to a tank that I can't do with my rifle on the point better? I'm reminded of something SoTa PoP said once when tower-forging was a thing: "why deny from a limited FoV like a rooftop when, with my HMG, I can deny anywhere?". That they add DPS is not disputed, but they don't particularly add important DPS, and I'd still be better off forging things what with having higher spike damage and a different angle from the tank, and also not dying if the tank does. Speak for yourself mate, they are incredibly valuable for missile tanks. Since I can't waste missiles on infantry I need anti infantry support on my tank, not next to it. Even if my gunners aren't shooting they can be looking for av threats or in the over view looking for other tanks and directing me behind them, it is so incredibly important to get the drop on other tanks, doubly so for shield tanks. If I find myself fighting a shield tank that extra rail dps is the most important due to the way missiles operate and their damage profile. In a particle cannon strapped to a tank you can one-two shot most suits and provide valuable cover fire for advancing or defending friendlies. You can also get out of the tank to support on the ground if needed and have your tank buddy give what support he can. Tank gunners and operators have a lot to learn, my python crew doesn't even need to think about these things, they simply recact as the situation demands, this applies to both my python and my gunni boy. Perhaps the situation with missiles is different, but the fellow I was gunning for was consistently hitting infantry, as well as being perfectly capable of dealing with HAVs. Our AI ability is decreased thanks to lessened mobility and decreased aim, and our AV ability is decreased in the sense that we're better off forging while he's fitted higher tank. Leaving the vehicle is iffy because of the loss of the HAVs effectiveness that implies; it's very difficult to hold an objective wiring an internal terminal from the outside, and going inside and separating from the HAV decreases the HAV's utility. Your missile tank might be effective, but I cannot see how it's more effective (and versatile) than three persons doing a separate task in concert, as opposed to a three-man missile turret with a bit more DPS. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!