I like the deadliness of a heavy hmg as it is right now. If we were to reduce its efficiency in a future hotfix, it would most likely be to heat since that rewards skill and not spray and pray.

don't engage them in their optimal

Hi, one of the many things I hear from people who defend the HMG is

with the way some of the maps are especially the Gallente research facility that's nearly impossible. What do they expect us to do exactly? Go for a walk until that heavy gets bored and stops defending the domination point just so I can just get rushed by 5 heavies when they discover I hacked it?

I can often deal with one heavy, sometimes two if they're horrible. But most of the time there are six + of them on one team.

Having quite a lot of respect for you for a lot of your threads, I'm curious about how you feel about this? I just don't entirely agree with having anywhere from 500 and 1000 more HP while having the range(not saying it's long) + DPS it has for marginally lower speed compared to medium frames.

It puts a lot of suits at massive disadvantages if they can't even get near them. There isn't even a reward to try flanking as they can turning around so quickly that even having the first shots on them isn't enough to be at an advantage. The only suit able to compete is the Amarr assault and shotgun scouts which is easily negated by more heavies and/or logis.

I feel bad for the poor blueberries going 1/20 just throwing themselves into the meat grinder because there's just nothing they can do. ;_;

Rock, Paper, Scissors


There are two factors which are contributing to HMG Heavies being too powerful right now and neither has anything to do with the HMG Heavy.

1) Assault suits are a little underpowered right now. Currently they are like Logi suits with less equipment.

I propose a 2% per level Damage bonus added on top of the bonuses they already have.

2) Having a Caldari Scout on your team means that all your Heavies can see all but the most dampened Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be a HMG SentinelGÇÖs hard counter, but it is hard to sneak up behind a Heavy with a Shotgun when you show up on the HeavyGÇÖs radar. (I killed a Cloaked Scout this morning that had a chevron above his head.)

I propose that only the enemy with profiles 5db above a suitGÇÖs precision get transmitted on the Tac-Net.

This way Cal Scouts could still see most other Scouts and do the work of countering them directly, but would not be transmitting their positions to the Sentinels on his team. Cal Scouts would still be doing the Scouting part of their job by transmit the positions of all Medium Frames (unless heavily damped) and any Light Frame suits that have not equipped or skilled for Stealth. (The 5db figure might need to be adjusted.)

Hi, one of the many things I hear from people who defend the HMG is

with the way some of the maps are especially the Gallente research facility that's nearly impossible. What do they expect us to do exactly? Go for a walk until that heavy gets bored and stops defending the domination point just so I can just get rushed by 5 heavies when they discover I hacked it?

I can often deal with one heavy, sometimes two if they're horrible. But most of the time there are six + of them on one team.

Having quite a lot of respect for you for a lot of your threads, I'm curious about how you feel about this? I just don't entirely agree with having anywhere from 500 and 1000 more HP while having the range(not saying it's long) + DPS it has for marginally lower speed compared to medium frames.

It puts a lot of suits at massive disadvantages if they can't even get near them. There isn't even a reward to try flanking as they can turning around so quickly that even having the first shots on them isn't enough to be at an advantage. The only suit able to compete is the Amarr assault and shotgun scouts which is easily negated by more heavies and/or logis.

I feel bad for the poor blueberries going 1/20 just throwing themselves into the meat grinder because there's just nothing they can do. ;_;

HELLO GUYS,

this is a compilation of data I have been working on. The hope of the following visual representation is to make people understand that the hmg is not as powerful as everyone makes it out to be and that they are in fact not playing tactically when using their weapon/suit of choice. Dust is a game where thinking wins fights not pure dps.



HMG dps does dramatically fall off to the point that at it's optimal of 33 meters it has only 50% of it's actual damage which in turn is less than even a militia assault rifle who has a range advantage of about 10 meters in which case it can out dps the heavy and take it out. The insistence in rushing heavies at their optimal and more than likely below their optimal results in a pretty quick death due to the mechanics of the HMG Therefore it must be concluded that the HMG does not in fact need a damage or range nerf but that the players need to manage their playstyles

NOTE: The ranges are pre-hotfix beta so some of them might be a little off; this chart was done yesterday for the most part.



Even though the HMG does not need or warrant a range and damage nerf, it is not to say it is not in need of some tweaks. As stated by ccp rattati in this post the increase of overheat is not off the table. As an HMG user myself I do see some merit in increasing overheat since at standard level a heavy can pump out 5,148 damage before overheat and at proto a whopping 6,673. Mimmicking CCP Rattati's words:





Even though rotation speed is a big factor in how a heavy functions, I do not believe it should be considered before exploring the overheat changes. Rotation speed was a huge drawback. This drawback was deemed a bit too much in the past and reasons still exists for not bringing it back. Although CCP rattati might be coerced into bringing it back, it might take the form of armor plate drawback. While I do not like this very much, I do also have to admit that it will not affect every heavy since some heavies choose or do not need to use armor plates. I also want to add that if implemented I would like it to not go too far. As it goes, there are many many things that can already kill a heavy before they turn around.



While I do not agree that there should be a damage or range nerf I do understand that there is room for compromise when it comes balancing heavies / HMG's. These compromises can come in the form of increased heat production and plates decreasing rotation speed. While I do not completely agree with the second one I must admit that if done right these two changes might create some semblance of balance for those who believe that the HEAVY class is OP without hindering the true HEAVY users too much. I also want to state That I am completely against including rotation speed to plates without first having tested and released the overheat mechanic rebalance.

First, Manis Peak Domination favours Medium Frame suits with rifles just as much as the Research Facility favours HMG Heavies. Those are the two ends of the spectrum. In Manis Peak I donGÇÖt even play a Sentinel most of the time, even on my Heavy character who is not skilled into anything else. I just run a Dren Logi with a Standard Rail Rifle (skilled to level 1), because there is often no way for a HMG Sentinel to get into range on Manis Peak Domination.

I would suggest using Scouts or Sentinels to deal with HMG Heavies in Research Facility domination, but if you have neither available then you will have to do a rotating advance.

Rotating advance:
You advance until you start taking too much damage, then you stop and your squad mate steps in front of you and you both continue the advance with him providing cover. A half second later a third squad member steps in front of him.

By this time you should have gotten most of the way down the hallway. Dive for cover on either side of the door and wait for your shields/armour to recover. Kill anything that steps through the door in a crossfire from both sides. When you have regained help, step out and focus fire. Return to cover on either side of the door when you get low. Repeat this until you ware them down. If you see Uplinks/Triage Hives in the room then toss a grenade and return to cover. Look for logi and ware them down/take them out. If a friendly logi can get a Nano Hive to your position you can use Grenades more.

As for the poor Blueberries, if your squad does it right, then they might learn something. They often copy the stuff they see to be effective.


Another tactic is the strafing advance.

Several people charge down the hallway while zig zagging from one side of the hall to the other. An HMG Heavy is most effective when they stay on one target, but with many moving targets in a small space it is psychologically difficult to focus on just one target, particularly when they are strafing past each other. This prevents focus fire and can help to get all your guys to the end of the hall with minimal casualties.

Whatever maneuver you use there are some important key points:
- DonGÇÖt interfere with your team mateGÇÖs movement. Watch they guys around you, and try not to block them.
- Use cover whenever possible. Try to remain in cover long enough for your shields to start to regenerate.
- Support your team mates with suppression fire. Any enemy who steps in front of the door should be hit by at least 3 if not 5 weapons. This will help to prevent them from coming out where they can shoot the guys who have taken cover.

do you even play heavy? do you know how meny bullets it takes to actually kill some one who isnt at less then 10 meters? LOTS! and that means constant overheating and wasting ammo.. and its bullcrap that it does 5000 dmg befor it overheats if i could achieve that then i could easily clear entire rooms which is NOT the case.. because at less then 5 meters its hard to keep people in the circle to get as meny bullets to hit as possable.. and over 10 with dispersal it wastes alot of bullets anyway..

STOP WHINING ABOUT HEAVY AND HMG CAUSE YOU SCOUTS ARE TOO STUPID TO FLANK!

try playing heavy for once and see its massive drawbacks.. the only time a heavy works is point control (easly broken with nades, orbital, massdriver or logi supported heavys or snipers, RE) i cant believe people are soo stupid to not think about tactics..
the only think wrong with heavy is yes maybe the Death taxi's but those were ingenious people who got around the limits of slow movement speed and short range.

how abotu less dispersal but shorter max range? 10-15meter optimal and 30meter falloff no change to heat/clip/ammo/turn... that way you stupid idiots can pick on heavys from outside the 30 meter range and if a heavy is doing their job guarding a point then figure out a way to flush em out insted of bitching abotu NERF HMG! NERF HEAVY!


ps if anything the Scrambler rifle is more OP then the HMG as even with out the charged shot it does like 780 DPS (if all shots hit) while HMG does 760 dps IF ALL SHOTS HIT... which they dont.. ever!

I used the HMG before it got fixed and made the fedback video that got it fixed.

I have proto heavies, proto logi, proto scout and working towards proto commando. I used the HMG before it got fixed and made the fedback video that got it fixed. I also used HMG when they had more overheat and the suit bonus actually reduced overheat of the weapon and as a heavy user I would not mind having that overheat back since it promoted skill and thwarted FOTM chasers. So yes I heavy, quite often and I don't appreciate people talking about what they don't know. I gave you numbers and proof. Please come here with facts and not whining because of possible changes that may or may not come.

Whenever I see someone in a thread using DPS as their reasoning for the HMG to be nerfed I just leave that thread.

Just because you have RPM and damage, doesn't mean you can calculate the actual DPS, so thank you for this. It's like people don't even think -_-

My view is that Heavies are only an issue when it comes to game modes like domination on the Gallente research facility. You end up with like 8+ sentinels sitting in the best CQC spot in the entire map...and the team that wins is the team that spams a thousand uplinks and two thousand nanohives. That becomes an issue of equipment spam, and not heavies. I could rush in and slay every single one of them with my Six Kin burst (and a decent logi on my team), but if I don't destroy the 500 triage nanohives constantly repping the heavies, and if I don't take out their only spawn points, they'll just stay alive and keep respawning.

Any other encounter in CQC is what I'd call a "terrain" advantage. It's not the best way to describe it, but it basically means that if you're in a CQC environment with a rifle not meant for CQC, you are going to be at a disadvantage and shouldn't try to fight off CQC weapons. It's the same common sense that is how you wouldn't try to rush after a player with a RR when you have a shotgun and 90 meters of open ground to cover.