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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6089
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Posted - 2014.06.18 22:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some discussion going on in the Skype channels about a simple concept of reducing the heavy frame's hacking speed modifier, providing an intuitive change that would encourage tactical decision making without being confrontational to what the Heavy is all about (point defense).
Would like to get outside opinions, so feel free to comment.
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Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6089
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Posted - 2014.06.18 22:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:The sentinel and heavy frame could be good, the commando I don't agree with at all.
Right, wasn't considering this applying to the entire spectrum of heavies. If it did happen to the Commando, I'd say it should be to a lesser extent.
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6090
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Posted - 2014.06.18 23:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Sentinels are the only suit that do not have Equipment. If you take away hacking they will only get War Points from Kills and Assists.
Sentinels already get less WP than any other class. If this goes through they will get substantially less WP than any other class.
I am not apposed to the idea of making hacking more difficult for Sentinels, or even removing the ability for Sentinels to hack all together, but only if a way is found to reward Sentinels for point defense, which I believe to be the SentinelGÇÖs primary role. I disagree with getting less WP's as seen here
Hahaha, well, while I applaud the screenshot it is anecdotal evidence so we can't assume that -ALL- heavies will wind up with thousands of WP. It is an interesting consideration.
Honestly, I'm of the volition that the only thing WP are good for outside of orbitals in pubs (and PC? Not sure if they ever removed warbarge strikes there?) is the end of match screen and leaderboards. Which, if you're worried about that as a Heavy, you're probably playing the role all wrong to begin with and should switch over to Logistics. For that reason, I don't think it bears as much as weight as moment-to-moment tactical/strategical play.
I'd much rather heavies make the conscious decision to -defend- the person hacking as opposed to hacking it themselves for the sake "gettin' moar pointses".
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Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6094
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Posted - 2014.06.19 18:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:As long as I have played this game I have heard people saying that Sentinels are for Point Defence. If that is supposed to be our role, then we should have the tools to fulfill that role.
When a Sentinel is defending a point it is common for an enemy to slip past the Sentinel when he is looking the other way, and hack the point when the Sentinel is around the corner. Because the Sentinel moves more slowly than other suits, it gives the enemy a bit more time to hack. I have so often seen the point I am guarding start to flash and come around the corner just as the hack finishes.
If Sentinels are not able to Counter-Hack then another suit will have to be left to defend instead of the Sentinel. The Sentinel could stay as a bodyguard for the defender, but that leaves the rest of the squad down two men instead of just 1. So the Sentinels will mostly likely be wanted on the front line if they donGÇÖt have the tools to defend the point. I think forcing Sentinels into the Assault role is counter to the intent of this thread.
I suggested considering a small buff to Counter-Hacking because we were discussing a major nerf to hacking speed with no corresponding benefit proposed. I felt that if Sentinels were supposed to be the defending class, then why not give them a small advantage when defending? But I am not tied to the idea of a slight buff to Counter-Hacking speed. It was just an idea I wanted to float for discussion.
The 10 WP bonus for kills within 30m of a friendly objective is something I would like to see for Sentinels regardless of whether there is a Hacking nerf, as a WP balance for not having an Equipment slot. (The lack of an equipment slot was meant as a functional balance. The resulting loss of WP potential was an unintentional side effect.)
IMO, there's nothing wrong with rectifying this problem by having two people on the objective - if a single guy is all it takes to defend an objective then the fact that he got out-maneuvering and the objective got hacked doesn't bother me that much. He should have been closer to the objective, or he should had more people with him.
As far as "major nerf" to hacking speed, there was no such thing. There have not been any number proposals in this thread at all and the assumption that it's a "major nerf" leads me to believe that we're on two different wavelengths as far as the amount of reduction. Someone earlier said 'removal' and I strongly disagree with this, it shouldn't be removed all together but I do feel it should be lessened to insinuate more on:
a) Legitimate effort toward point defense, meaning: Killing the guy -before- he hacks the objective. b) The heavy not being used to 'push' objectives (which they're doing a lot of lately).
In the same sense, while I do like suggestions for better WP accrual for different things, I've always hated WP in general. The fact that ISK/SP is associated with it drives me bonkers and further more, the tournament at Fanfest was WP-based... so the entire tournament was four/five Logistics running around repairing one Sentinel competing for upwards of 5000 WP's in cases. That being said, if your primary goal is to gain WP and not actually play the game... Might be time to reconsider your specialization
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Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6109
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Posted - 2014.06.20 11:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:If you want to define the role of the Sentinel as not a Hacker you have to give them a major nerf to hacking speed or take the ability away.
If you only give them a minor nerf to Hacking Speed, then they will still feel obligated to hack. All a minor nerf to Hacking Speed does is insures that Sentinels die more often while hacking. That is not role definition. That is just a nerf Heavies proposal.
If you donGÇÖt want Sentinels to hack, then you have to give them a good excuse not to. You need to make other suits clearly and measurably better at hacking, so that the Sentinel does not feel obligated to sacrifice himself for the good of the team. This means either a major nerf or removing the ability to hack all together.
I am 100% against a GÇ£minorGÇ¥ nerf to Sentinel Hacking Speed!
A major nerf to hacking speed, or removing the ability to hack, on the other hand, would measurably increase my KDR, because a significant number of my deaths occur while hacking.
This goes right back to what classifies as minor/major and to whom, though. Imo, anything more than 50% is too much, anything less than 25% is negligible (undone by Systems Hacking skill). That's just my personal thoughts on it though.
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