DUST Search - How to fix the Scouts so they still kill, but not OP

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

Honestly where CCP screwed up with the weapons available to scouts was two fold. One they should only be able to carry one weapon system that is not based on equipment. Two they should be limited by PG and CPU in what they put into that one weapons slot. Then the rest of this takes care of itself.

What do I mean?

Let's say we keep all Scout suits exactly as they are now save only one change. We remove the sidearm slot. Now they can still fit both Light weapons (Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, Mass Drivers, Shotguns, even Plasma Cannons) or they can choose to fit a smaller Sidearm weapon (any Pistol, SMG, or Knife). So why would any Scout ever fit a pistol instead of a rifle? Well Sidearms should cost much less to fit in terms of PG and CPU. So if you want to fit that uber shotgun or sniper rifle or even plasma cannon on a Scout suit, you can, but it will cost you more PG and CPU and should gimp the rest of the suit for other purposes.

In other words, to do more damage, there needs to be a tradeoff!!! So the final result is that Scouts should not have the sidearm slot (they can and will fit sidearms in the light slot instead) and they should have a reduced amount of PG and CPU to match. Then the player that uses a Scout suit has to make a decision: more damage = less something else - less damage = more of something else.

This simple and easy fix to Scout suits would solve just about every single complaint I've heard about how Scouts are the new OP in this game.

Don't believe me? Just sit and think on it for a bit.

Hell test it out on the server by reducing the amount of PG and CPU you will use on your scout suits by 10-15% and don't put anything into the sidearm slot. Now go out and fight that way and see what happens.

This is the major reason Scouts are better than Assault at killing right now!

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2085	Posted - 2014.06.20 09:25:00 - [31] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: leave scouts as they are.. but get this.. give Assault suits precision and range/duration as another bonus on the suits so they are the bane of scouts who dont use Ewar no scouts should be able to evade infantry except for caladari which as scouts are scout hunters... FYI +GalLogi Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
headbust SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 46	Posted - 2014.06.20 17:21:00 - [32] - Quote stupidest idea ever if ccp even starts to do this there will be an uproar and so many people quitting the game it wont be funny. plus that was an idea a while back and everyone went against it so it will not happen now a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
headbust SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 46	Posted - 2014.06.20 17:25:00 - [33] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: leave scouts as they are.. but get this.. give Assault suits precision and range/duration as another bonus on the suits so they are the bane of scouts who dont use Ewar no scouts should be able to evade infantry except for caladari which as scouts are scout hunters, so the same role in assualt should pertain to cal assault y should scouts not be able to avoid infantry that is their whole role is this your first shooter game im tired of hearing nerf the scout. i will admit when the cloak first came out it was ridiculous the amount of scouts there were but now they have slacked off so put some ointment on ur butt hurt and get outta here with that all ur forums are about nerfing scouts.mine has been nerfed enough a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
JUDASisMYhomeboy III xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 72	Posted - 2014.06.20 22:49:00 - [34] - Quote Unscannable, tiny hitbox, move so fast you cant hit them, 2 shots and you're dead AND basically invisible. The scout itself isnt op, its the sum of its parts. Its a cheap tactic and you guys know it. Honestly no single one of these things is op but together its just stupid. I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 138	Posted - 2014.06.20 23:09:00 - [35] - Quote The tradeoff for the bonuses we got in 1.8 was supposed to be low HP, but that restriction isn't really a thing anymore. Before 1.l8 Scouts were underperforming because they had low HP and not much to show for it except increased movement. There were still great slayer scouts that ruffled feathers (i'm not sorry get good) but Scouts were for masochists. Then to make claoks work great Scouts got tons of CPU and PG and all the nonsense started. With low HP a scout (and everyone else really) could still strafe to escape danger, but the tradeoff to that is strafing reduces accuracy. Unless you're using a Combat Rifle with it's weird CQC homing bullets or whatever makes to so damn good while hip-firing. 1.7 was on the precipice of balancing the scouts with everyone else, they just needed the extra oomph to get them up with everyone else. In my opinion that extra thing was the min scout getting that extra high slot and an extra gadget slot for everyone. No extra CPU, fix that stupid CR, cloaks that kept you from fighting (or just no cloaks what a bad idea) and everything would have been fine.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 199	Posted - 2014.06.21 01:14:00 - [36] - Quote scouts need to defend themselves too. and scouts are much too easy to kill anyways. the cloak is only good for hiding in hiding spots, not in plain view. the problem isnt scouts. its everyone else improperly using their roles. if you go solo into enemy territory in an assault or heavy suit, you arent using either suit properly. scouts are supposed to be able to do that. well, most are. the gallente one and the minmatar one are supposed to. the caldari one is more of a seeker unit and the amarr scout is basically a light suit that can run for awhile. no idea what its pirpose is and i think nobody else knows either. something just isnt right here. the scouts are very well balanced and others will see that if they just use their heads to kill them. they are typically smarter units, so u just gotta out-smart them. scouts dont even get the most kills. whenever i see a scout, he doesnt last long on the frontlines. they excel at espionage and counter-espionage orperations. the problem is that assault suits dont know what a frontline is and so they try and break behind enemy lines and hack obectives. Every suit Gk.0 <3 Gallente Federation Patriot
Kurai Ronin Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.06.21 20:19:00 - [37] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Honestly where CCP screwed up with the weapons available to scouts was two fold. One they should only be able to carry one weapon system that is not based on equipment. Two they should be limited by PG and CPU in what they put into that one weapons slot. Then the rest of this takes care of itself. What do I mean? Let's say we keep all Scout suits exactly as they are now save only one change. We remove the sidearm slot. Now they can still fit both Light weapons (Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, Mass Drivers, Shotguns, even Plasma Cannons) or they can choose to fit a smaller Sidearm weapon (any Pistol, SMG, or Knife). So why would any Scout ever fit a pistol instead of a rifle? Well Sidearms should cost much less to fit in terms of PG and CPU. So if you want to fit that uber shotgun or sniper rifle or even plasma cannon on a Scout suit, you can, but it will cost you more PG and CPU and should gimp the rest of the suit for other purposes. In other words, to do more damage, there needs to be a tradeoff!!! So the final result is that Scouts should not have the sidearm slot (they can and will fit sidearms in the light slot instead) and they should have a reduced amount of PG and CPU to match. Then the player that uses a Scout suit has to make a decision: more damage = less something else - less damage = more of something else. This simple and easy fix to Scout suits would solve just about every single complaint I've heard about how Scouts are the new OP in this game. Don't believe me? Just sit and think on it for a bit. Hell test it out on the server by reducing the amount of PG and CPU you will use on your scout suits by 10-15% and don't put anything into the sidearm slot. Now go out and fight that way and see what happens. This is the major reason Scouts are better than Assault at killing right now! scouts are already near OP
Kurai-Ronin Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.24 19:37:00 - [38] - Quote Fool.
Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 385	Posted - 2014.06.24 19:43:00 - [39] - Quote try this instead https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166283&find=unread
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 842	Posted - 2014.06.24 19:49:00 - [40] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Didn't realize Scouts were still overperforming. I'm seeing alot more Heavies than Scouts. That would be because they don't have a full PRO scout fit, and want to survive just a bit longer in combat... If different suits had different restrictions for going over certain set limits, it might make balancing a bit easier in the long run. Such as, what if stacking armor plates reduced strafing speed on scouts? Or boosting with a lot of KinKat reduced the overall HP? It could have a stacking penalty, meaning that if you have 1 it's miniscule (-0.02), but 2 it's getting a bit tougher (-0.20, and 3 it's almost detrimental (-2.00) etc. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust, theme

Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2014.06.24 20:58:00 - [41] - Quote the problem isn't having 2 weapons.... its having too much ehp... even proto scouts should get decimated by std weapons... the trade off is how fast and invisible they are. a scout who is seen should be a dead scout.... period.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2124	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:01:00 - [42] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: the problem isn't having 2 weapons.... its having too much ehp... even proto scouts should get decimated by std weapons... the trade off is how fast and invisible they are. a scout who is seen should be a dead scout.... period. I think there should be some room for skill involved. And I do think that std weapons should take longer to kill a proto scout and enable them to find cover save for if a scout is flanked. I think any flanked suit should have shorter time to die. This is how a minja feels
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5451	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:25:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Didn't realize Scouts were still overperforming. I'm seeing alot more Heavies than Scouts. That's cause all the scouts are cloaked That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5451	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:28:00 - [44] - Quote headbust wrote: stupidest idea ever if ccp even starts to do this there will be an uproar and so many people quitting the game it wont be funny. plus that was an idea a while back and everyone went against it so it will not happen now Fake Scouts would quit. I ran SMG + NK before the ACR came out. I'd just go back to running that again. That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11117	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:31:00 - [45] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: headbust wrote: stupidest idea ever if ccp even starts to do this there will be an uproar and so many people quitting the game it wont be funny. plus that was an idea a while back and everyone went against it so it will not happen now Fake Scouts would quit. I ran SMG + NK before the ACR came out. I'd just go back to running that again. But you are running the ACR now? " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III


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