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Adipem Nothi
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1896
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Posted - 2014.06.16 01:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Upside: No more stunlock!
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1902
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Posted - 2014.06.16 03:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Heavies need to have their turn speed reduced and their movement speed as well, I've seen some plate laden Gallente heavies that move far faster than they should. Their turn speed needs to be reduced maybe 25% slower than medium frames. But I see no problem with movement speed, any lower and we will have to jump steps...
Rotation speeds are determined by input sensitivity (not suit type).
Scout+CmpKinCat (x4) = Light Frame = Med Frame = Heavy Frame = Sentinel+CmpPlates (x4)
I also agree that we Heavy rotation speed should be reduced (not movement speed).
Question is should it be defined on a frame-by-frame basis or built into Armor Plates?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1903
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Posted - 2014.06.16 03:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:
Are you referring to the armor plating that (so I interpret) comes with being a heavy, the modules, or both?
Because I could see this helping to fix some of the tanking on other fits too if their turn speed were reduced.
May not even be possible; depends on how related items are coded ...
Unlikely
I think it highly unlikely that Rotation_Penalty_Per_Armor_Point was prebuilt into movement mechanics. In other words, the framework that'd permit us to say "a merc with 150 Total Armor spins about faster a merc with 1,500 Total Armor" doesn't exist in Dust. And what doesn't already exist, won't exist; we must work with what we have.
Possibly
If Armor Plates are coded with Movement Penalty % then there's a chance the developers coded Max Rotation Penalty % as well. If that's the case, Rattati need only increase that value to solve the problem of Max-HP Gal Sentinels rotating as rapidly as the rest of us.
Likely
Sometime in mid 2013, the Devs "normalized" rotation speeds among all suits; prior to this point, rotation speeds varied by suit category. As the framework previously existed, it seems highly likely that it still exists. In short, "Denormalizing" rotation speeds would let us redefine max rotation speed by Light, Medium, and Heavy but probably wouldn't permit us to differentiate much further. In other words, fixing Heavy rotation speed may result the Commando being penalized since it shares a category with the Heavy. Could be wrong on that, but it'd explain why Rattati hasn't done it yet.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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1903
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Posted - 2014.06.16 03:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Egonz4 wrote:
Just run a 3K RE suit...it's fun
Just in case you're out-of-the-loop, your low-end REs are getting nerfed.
Heavies complained about them.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1903
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Posted - 2014.06.16 03:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Forever ETC wrote:Again, no one is forcing you to play. You can quit anytime you like, unless if there is literally someone holding you at gun point and forcing you to play. BTW what makes you think that Legion won't have balancing problems when it comes out? You know, you may be in my corp, but I REALLY don't like you let alone have ever seen you in game.... I've seen him. I feel better about my gameplay when I see him.
Is it wrong that when I read posts by Heavies I think of Spkr and Taki discussing AV?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1905
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Posted - 2014.06.16 03:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Or when all the "top scouts" tried to defend that the Amarr scout would be hyper OP and didn't need any buffs in the face of over whelming evidence their "scouty know how" was a load of ****.
Got me there. To be fair, you guys were zero help in the process ...
I remember a whole lot of wall-text and few (if any) tenable ideas from you guys.
But you all sure were quick to respond to our ideas with "no, that's not good enough".
Anyhow, we're still kicking around ideas for you guys ...
* Bonuses to Biotics (gotta be quick to round up the Matari slaves)
* Bonuses to Range (AM long range / low precision vs CA short range / high precision)
* Bonuses to Ferroscale / Reactive Efficacy (my personal favorite)
How 'bout you. Do you have anything to suggest?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1905
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Posted - 2014.06.16 04:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
As for suggestions I stated I didn't know how to achieve balance only that the current iterations of the suits are not balanced.
We're off topic here, but assuming you have kids, which would you prefer to see yours doing:
"Hey! I'm not happy with what I've got here. Can I trade it for ... [ insert something reasonable ]?"
-- or --
"[Screaming / Stomping Feet] Not fair! Timmy's is better than mine and so is Suzie's! Not fair!"
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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1905
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Posted - 2014.06.16 04:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
We never took that tone where was not reasonable. No scout could come up with a half decent counter argument for why they believed it was "fair" to gimp the Amarr scout....when the Gal Scout could do everything better anyway.....
Since I know better now the Amarr have some good examples in EVE of great little scouting ships.
The "top scouts" actually spend time discussing meaningful ways to make things better for those who are under performing. I've no doubt you feel wholly neglected :: sadface :: but truth be told Minmatar Scouts are in worse shape than Amarr. I don't care if you believe it or not, and I won't waste time trying to convince you. But it is fact, and we're actively trying to get both of you squared away.
Precisely what are you doing to help?
Would you classify our little chat here as help?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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1906
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Posted - 2014.06.16 04:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:
Still spewing the same lies I see... Do you by chance armor tank? As a pure Amarr user I do nothing but armor tank and i CAN ASSURE you that plates do in fact reduce turn speed. The reason I know this is because I rarely use one suit type in a match often switching between my commando who uses reps in the lows and my sentinel which uses complex plates in the lows and there is an extremely noticeable difference in turn performance.
I timed rotation speeds today between Scout w/out Plates and a Heavy w/2 Complex Plates.
As best I could tell, they were exactly the same.
Worry not, it'll be proven one way or the other by tomorrow.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Heavy Rotation Speed is still too fast.
But what will come of your "everything is fine" position if you are proven wrong?
You've more to lose than I. Good luck.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1906
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Posted - 2014.06.16 04:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Nope I sadly gave up on trying to help once we were ignored after presenting evidence in the face of condemnation by supposedly knowledgeable players......
Well then ...
When you're done feeling sorry for yourself, you know where to find us. That is, of course, assuming you've come up with something meaningful to contribute.
Until then, we'll see you in battle. o7
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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1906
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Posted - 2014.06.16 04:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Commando 4 lyfe!
Indeed! Back on topic ...
Problem: Heavy Rotation Speed
Solution: Reduce Heavy Frame Max Rotation Rate
Outcome, Intended: No more rapidly rotating, 1,500HP sentinels :-)
Outcome, Unintended: Commando Rotation Speed also reduced :-(
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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1919
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Posted - 2014.06.16 16:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Victor889 wrote:
... the only thing that has changed drastically is the difference in heavies ...
Since Beta, which of the following has also changed drastically?
1) Heavy Hitpoint Potential
2) Heavy Rotation Speed
3) Heavy Resistances
4) HMG Range
5) Shotgun Range
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1919
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Posted - 2014.06.16 16:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Victor889 wrote:
... the only thing that has changed drastically is the difference in heavies ...
1) Has Heavy max-HP changed drastically? 2) Has Heavy Rotation Speed changed drastically? 3) Has HMG Range changed drastically? You also forgot about damage resistance.
Fixed. Also added Shotgun Range, since they tend to move out-of-range so freely following the first blast.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1920
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Posted - 2014.06.16 16:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:
Anyone who actually wants a real discussion about war materiel or tactics can go find another game. This is FPS politics at its worst for game design, throw in real-life threats on Devs and we will officially hit rock bottom. Although technically these days are less severe than that 2013 campaign to break vehicle/weapon balance.
Are we not here to discuss and optimize role/weapon balance?
Are we not in a better position to do so than the Devs themselves?
Are we not more numerous than the Devs?
Are we not further progressed in our respective roles?
Are we not more aware of battlefield conditions in competitive play?
Are we not more aware of battlefield conditions in non-competitive play?
Weapons and roles aren't balanced. Thankfully, we have a Dev (Rattati) who is interested in seeing them balanced. I'd like to think our feedback helps Rattati prioritize issues.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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1962
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Posted - 2014.06.17 12:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:
and this is what happens when the community gets blaster tanks nerfed.
Seriously? That's what you're going with?
NoxMort3m wrote: dont get in a heavies face and u wouldnt die
A quandary of sorts ...
I begin from behind with point-blank blast from my shotgun. And suddenly "I'm in a Heavy's face".
Is this when I'm supposed to demonstrate extraordinary gungame and cross my fingers?
Why is that again?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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