DUST Search - Destiny is great, but it is NOT a replacement for Dust/Legion

CRNWLLC wrote:

I-Shayz-I wrote:

So then what does Dust have that Destiny does not?

-Higher amount of variations that are possible
-While you can slowly progress to make your character into a specific playstyle, there's currently no way to augment certain traits that you want to excel in
-A repair tool (health levels aren't high enough in Destiny to have healing be a helpful thing)
-Large maps that allow for tactics, rather than rush and spam gameplay
-A non-linear skill tree (you just unlock variations/upgrades to your character as you progress in Destiny, similar to CoD)
-Calling in vehicles (you have a speeder-bike that can be summoned, all other vehicles just spawn randomly on the small PVP maps)
-A top-down view of the entire map available in real time
-Equipment that can change the flow of battle or give you an advantage tactically, like uplinks and scanners
-Tacnet system that displays enemy information (Destiny has a sectional radar to tell general direction)
-A skill system that allows you to play casually and not have to grind to get better stuff (i.e. passive sp)
-Suits and deaths that matter and are worth/cost something

I appreciate your analysis, thanks a lot. I can't wait for the Destiny beta to drop.

But some of the points you made bring up some issues I've been having with Dust lately.

I don't think there's actually a higher amount of variation. This is evinced by the overwhelming number of heavies/tanks/cloaky scouts and ACRs/SGs/HMGs. So, without real balance between the "options", there aren't many options for players that care about good, fair fights, more than the easiest path to a high KDR. Bear in mind my usual fit involves a basic scout suit and basic ScR.

The TacNet system is nifty, but it's also a crutch that rewards players with older characters (ie, dropsuit electronics upgrades). From what I've seen of Destiny and heard from its developers, players are supposed to get information on their friends/foes based on the way they look. Not sure how this works in practice, but it sounds sufficient to me.

Not sure how passive SP in Dust "allows" casual play, but there's a strong sentiment in the community that Dust is pay-to-win (or at least, pay-to-have-a-much-much-higher-likelihood-of-winning). Assuming two players of generally the same video game experience/skill start characters at the same time, and one plays daily with boosters, while the other logs in once a week without, the former player will almost unquestionably come out on top of any one-on-one with the latter, and it has little to do with inherent skill. It's almost universally agreed that Dust is not in any way a fun or approachable game for casual or new players.

Which brings me to my next point: I don't care at all about the cost of anything I lose because I run cheap gear and go ISK/KDR positive. This is not only because dropships are expensive, and I like to crash them, but because I have become majorly anti-tryhard these past months, and dislike playing against people that actually feel like they're losing something when they die in-game. Or that think they're good because they coordinate with a bunch of their protobros to stomp on a bunch of MLT randos in Ambush. I would much prefer that everyone has access to the same equipment from the start, and that skill has to do with the way they use that equipment, versus the amount of time they've had a character. As someone pointed out a while ago, the idea that you need a whole different skillset to use another type of rifle is ludicrous, as is the idea of skill in a weapon or module somehow changing its physical properties (a la, +X% clip capacity/level, or +X% better armor efficacy per level--how does knowledge = more/stronger against bullets?). I have fun pewpewing fake faces, not keeping an inventory gear, so I buy hundreds and hundreds of the cheap crap I use and forget about the marketplace for a month.

Anyway, Dust does (EDIT: did) have a lot going for it, and it is fun as hell--I just wish that balance was a priority, it was easier for noobs to get into, and that it wasn't built around rewarding sh!thead "tactics" and playstyles.


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Gemini Cuspid 108	Posted - 2014.06.16 04:13:00 - [1] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: One Eyed King wrote: This is also assuming that there is not much else to add coming in Beta or the full release. As a scout, I already die before I can react. Maybe it won't be as great as everyone says, but I am hoping I can at least find it enjoyable. By the looks of it, the Destiny developers understand the concept of a beta, and therefore probably won't add ANYTHING in beta. Btw, I've been in enough betas to direct you to something pretty funny- pay attention to game balance discussions on the forums before and after official release. Before release, everyone is always cool with how everything is. After release, there's a sudden torrent of cries of imbalance, creating a never-ending avalanche of balance patches, all caused by loud noobs. Dust is the only exception to this occurrence I know of, but only because our beta wasn't really a beta and our release wasn't really a release. How many halo betas have you been in? I'm gonna take a dig that everyone in the white~knighting Dust forums use: BUT HALO WAS DESTINY'S BETA MUCH LIKE DUST IS LEGION'S BETA HATERS!!!! It would also be worth noting that Bungie got a much sweeter deal in working multiplatform than it did with Microsoft when it was in dire need of cash infusion and offered up Halo as a demo of what they were working on after Apple declined on joining them. It's also a funny irony that everyone here is saying "they did that in Halo so it's never gonna change" and that's the SAME EFFING LINE WE'VE BEEN SAYING ABOUT CCP!!! Should I have to get the hypocrite meter going on because that's what a lot of you saying how horrible Destiny will be are pretty much denying with Legion. And even a lot of other testers pointed out with Polygon's review that it was a guided 20 min demo of how one of the operational features work in Destiny to demo game mechanics. Interesting players are disappointed in a 20 min guided demo and raising it as rallying cry as to how bad Destiny will be and Legion won't.
Gemini Cuspid 108	Posted - 2014.06.17 01:22:00 - [2] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: So then what does Dust have that Destiny does not? -Higher amount of variations that are possible -While you can slowly progress to make your character into a specific playstyle, there's currently no way to augment certain traits that you want to excel in -A repair tool (health levels aren't high enough in Destiny to have healing be a helpful thing) -Large maps that allow for tactics, rather than rush and spam gameplay -A non-linear skill tree (you just unlock variations/upgrades to your character as you progress in Destiny, similar to CoD) -Calling in vehicles (you have a speeder-bike that can be summoned, all other vehicles just spawn randomly on the small PVP maps) -A top-down view of the entire map available in real time -Equipment that can change the flow of battle or give you an advantage tactically, like uplinks and scanners -Tacnet system that displays enemy information (Destiny has a sectional radar to tell general direction) -A skill system that allows you to play casually and not have to grind to get better stuff (i.e. passive sp) -Suits and deaths that matter and are worth/cost something I appreciate your analysis, thanks a lot. I can't wait for the Destiny beta to drop. But some of the points you made bring up some issues I've been having with Dust lately. I don't think there's actually a higher amount of variation. This is evinced by the overwhelming number of heavies/tanks/cloaky scouts and ACRs/SGs/HMGs. So, without real balance between the "options", there aren't many options for players that care about good, fair fights, more than the easiest path to a high KDR. Bear in mind my usual fit involves a basic scout suit and basic ScR. The TacNet system is nifty, but it's also a crutch that rewards players with older characters (ie, dropsuit electronics upgrades). From what I've seen of Destiny and heard from its developers, players are supposed to get information on their friends/foes based on the way they look. Not sure how this works in practice, but it sounds sufficient to me. Not sure how passive SP in Dust "allows" casual play, but there's a strong sentiment in the community that Dust is pay-to-win (or at least, pay-to-have-a-much-much-higher-likelihood-of-winning). Assuming two players of generally the same video game experience/skill start characters at the same time, and one plays daily with boosters, while the other logs in once a week without, the former player will almost unquestionably come out on top of any one-on-one with the latter, and it has little to do with inherent skill. It's almost universally agreed that Dust is not in any way a fun or approachable game for casual or new players. Which brings me to my next point: I don't care at all about the cost of anything I lose because I run cheap gear and go ISK/KDR positive. This is not only because dropships are expensive, and I like to crash them, but because I have become majorly anti-tryhard these past months, and dislike playing against people that actually feel like they're losing something when they die in-game. Or that think they're good because they coordinate with a bunch of their protobros to stomp on a bunch of MLT randos in Ambush. I would much prefer that everyone has access to the same equipment from the start, and that skill has to do with the way they use that equipment, versus the amount of time they've had a character. As someone pointed out a while ago, the idea that you need a whole different skillset to use another type of rifle is ludicrous, as is the idea of skill in a weapon or module somehow changing its physical properties (a la, +X% clip capacity/level, or +X% better armor efficacy per level--how does knowledge = more/stronger against bullets?). I have fun pewpewing fake faces, not keeping an inventory gear, so I buy hundreds and hundreds of the cheap crap I use and forget about the marketplace for a month. Anyway, Dust does (EDIT: did) have a lot going for it, and it is fun as hell--I just wish that balance was a priority, it was easier for noobs to get into, and that it wasn't built around rewarding sh!thead "tactics" and playstyles. I got a different feel from the Alpha I'll say a few things: you are comparing a 1+ yr game vs an Alpha...if you can tell me the problem with that then I digress Alpha, 'nuff said some of the content itself was also capped to avoid "over consumption"; it "is" working as a part mmo and none of us are going to deny that getting access to the game fully would lead hundreds of thousands to race to the end and learn everything the core mechanics and difficulty which will require greater teamwork rather than a Bordlands boss-fight feel will be there on game launch in the beginning tons of stuff are easier, same was true for Dust, and the variation is limited. A good example is how many weapons do 15+ months players of Dust use versus their first several months? I'm not going to white night Destiny but, unlike a lot of the "omgz we gotta defend Dust & CCP", like really you have the need to play up Dust as if it were bounds and leaps superior to Destiny and the only way to prove otherwise is to play the game 100% fully There are tons of logic problems with what you posted and your approach in doing so but there is one thing that is a given: Destiny has immense possibilities at this stage still. Dust is clinging to life support because a game that's been out for over a year and has gotten the reputation it has along with the poor ratings it's sported for a year while tossing in it's inability to produce and environment that is receptive to new players is the major and only difference that matters right now. Because it also implies that one title has the ability to start off right while the other is still trying to get on the right track . And yes, these differences do matter~