honestly? I haven't used those in so long its pathetic. I bought my Dragonfly early on and I used to use it quite a bit, and it's essentially a caldari starter fit, so I can vouch for it being good for a FREE SUIT.

You have to realize all these "points" you're making about it being weak... IT'S FREE, IT SHOULD BE WEAK. It's all about gun game in your free suits. Do better, get more ISK, get better results.

Nobody should even be using their free suits. Not even the Dragonfly is ISK efficient unless maybe you're skilled into Caldari Assault. Only things like Dren and Templar BPOs are worth using over an advanced logi or basic scout/heavy.

When I started playing dust at the very end of chromosome, I was getting proto stomped all the time by every players. My fit sucked, but I carried on, and now I am the one who proto (or even Adv) stomp people. I dont see why new players should have an advantage that none of us had.

Militia gallente > all other militia

the only differance between MLT frontline and MLT medic for gallente is the injector.. so when starting out its better to just use MLT medic Gallente for extra points.

Honestly I'd love to see some MLT fits with drop uplinks inherent to them and some with nanite injectors / rep tools inherent.

Militia Uplinks are one of biggest b*tches to fit... Every time I tried to make an Amarr Starter fit with a Militia Uplink, the suit was beyond garbage.

honestly? I haven't used those in so long its pathetic. I bought my Dragonfly early on and I used to use it quite a bit, and it's essentially a caldari starter fit, so I can vouch for it being good for a FREE SUIT.

You have to realize all these "points" you're making about it being weak... IT'S FREE, IT SHOULD BE WEAK. It's all about gun game in your free suits. Do better, get more ISK, get better results.

Nobody should even be using their free suits. Not even the Dragonfly is ISK efficient unless maybe you're skilled into Caldari Assault. Only things like Dren and Templar BPOs are worth using over an advanced logi or basic scout/heavy.

As the title says, I've spent the last two days playing with MLT starter fits, caldari ones in particular, but I have some experience with the amarr and minmatar ones, and all I have to say is, 'people are really expected to kill other people with theses? god these suits are *bad*'

To sum it up, MLT medium frames are prettymuch the posterchild of all of the endemic problems related to the medium frame - goofy slot layouts, low hp, useless 'non-choices' (a lot of modules slapped on MLT frames shouldn't be there), and really wacky stats. Problems are only exacerbated when trying to fight people who are using *anything* other than medium frames themselves.

So to start, lets get one of the biggest problems out of the way - Amarr and minmatar mlt med frames *do not have a lowslot and do not repair armor* they are immediately made useless because of this fact and are too bad to even be talked about beyond this problem. Second off Caldari and Minmatar frames have *extremely low health totals* and in some cases do not even use all of their slots or do not use them in meaningful manners (2 damage mods on caldari frontline, 1 empty slot on caldari medic, myofibrils on minmatar suits) which is even more problematic when they get 1/4 less HP per shield module than a gallente suit would and are expected to survive using less of their total health pool than a gallente MLT frame would.

In regards to wonky stats, MLT caldari medium frames only recharge shields at 15hp / second the lowest of the MLT frames, period.

Medium frames in general only have 33% to 50% more hp than their light frame variants *before modules* but only around 33% of the HP of a heavy:
Amarr light : 100 shield 130 armor, 1 high, 3 lows 30 shield / sec, 4s/6s delay
Amarr medium : 120 shield, 240 armor, 2 highs, 0 lows 20 shield / sec, 7s/10s delay
Amarr heavy : 360 shield, 408 armor, 1 high, 1 low 12.75 shield / sec, 5s/5s delay
Caldari light : 130 shield, 70 armor, 3 highs 1 low 50 shield / sec, 3s/4s delay
Caldari Medium : 210 shield, 120 armor, 2 highs, 1 low, 15 shield / sec, 5s/6s delay
Caldari heavy : 446 shield, 390 armor, 1 high, 1 low, 30 shield / sec, 4s/1s delay <-arguably the best mlt frame for hp
Gallente Light : 70 shield, 130 armor, 1 high, 3 lows, 34 shield / sec, 3 armor / sec, 4s/6s delay
Gallente medium : 120 shield, 210 armor, 0 highs, 3 lows, 20 shield / sec, 2 armor / sec, 7s/10s delay <- best of the mediums by far
Gallente Heavy : 390 shield, 446 armor, 1 high, 1 low, 15 shield / sec, 4s/6s delay
Minmatar light : 100 shield, 70 armor, 2 highs, 2 lows, 40 shield / sec, 4s/5s delay
Minmatar medium : 150 shield, 135 armor, 3 highs, 0 lows, 25 shield/sec, 6s/8s delay
Minmatar Heavy : 390shield, 370 armor, 1 high, 1 low, 20 shield / sec, 4s/6s delay

Aside from the gallente, there are zero reasons to use a MLT medium frame, they have less speed, less ewar, less slots and don't gain anything significant in terms of HP.

Medium frames are not 'versatile', lights / scouts are, They do not do anything 'well' when they should be the jack of all trades, performing 'well' / above average in all areas except for hp (where they should be about *half* the hp values of a heavy).

I apologize for not spreadsheeting this, but I am hilariously inept with such things, and I wish I could spreadsheet out the problems with mediums vs lights/heavies overall.

edit: To explain 'non-choices', a great deal of the modules that one might use on a medium don't actually do enough to be meaningful. There's no reason to ever fit things like precision / range / damp modules as they will never *ever* do enough to let you see a scout suit without sacrificing your entire build. Heavies have some of the same problems but they get a *lot* more HP in exchange for it.