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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1244
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Posted - 2014.06.15 01:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
The shotgun is still having major hit detection issues. Please watch the video evidence as attached.
http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs
The first 3 engagements are examples of good hit detection and a good baseline to show the issues that crop up over the course of running the shotgun..
Please look into fixing these issues.
Cloaked scouts seem to no take damage right as they uncloak. Might be something tied to the same cloaking mechanism when someone spawns.
Youtube
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1843
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Posted - 2014.06.15 01:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:
Cloaked scouts seem to no take damage right as they uncloak. Might be something tied to the same cloaking mechanism when someone spawns.
2:19 - Center mass; shield flare w/zero damage. 9m is suboptimal but it definitely should've hurt 'em. Would've never thought to look at decloak mechanism. Good eye, Iggy. o7
In my opinion, this footage demonstrates a need for widening the shotgun's spread and extending its range.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1246
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Posted - 2014.06.15 03:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well I was thinking swapping shield bonus and armor bonus around. Honestly the shield bonuses aren't necessary in close quarters. It's the armor we have to worry about. Swapping it would go a long way in helping and only a minor tweak.
Youtube
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
5268
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Posted - 2014.06.15 04:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Well I was thinking swapping shield bonus and armor bonus around. Honestly the shield bonuses aren't necessary in close quarters. It's the armor we have to worry about. Swapping it would go a long way in helping and only a minor tweak.
HD issues?
Time for a Minmatar Solution.
Give me a full auto projectile Shotgun CCP!
Think USAS-12 EVE version 
/joking aside
I honestly think that Shotguns are one of the few weapons that should get a flat bonus to damage like the Knives.
For High Alpha weapons, you really need the ability to just CHEW through people. Exceptions are weapons with high alpha and range (Like the forge and ScR).
Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP
PSN: EVL_Elgost105
RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1249
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Posted - 2014.06.15 06:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well the fact that you can alpha straight through 500 shields no problem with the shotgun at sub optimal range means its only really useful on cal heavy stacked with extenders. Which is quite rare. Chewing through armor over 400 means at least two shots. Aka a dead scout.
I worry too many people would scream nerf if the shotgun had a flat bonus. Look at the combat rifle and its constant battle with its "wonky" damage profile.
Youtube
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Varoth Drac
the unholy legion of darkstar
DARKSTAR ARMY
125
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Posted - 2014.06.15 10:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
I also think it is worth looking at hit detection on caldari scouts. I know there are obviously problems with hitting other targets but the caldari scout examples in this video were pretty blatant.
Other people have brought up issues hitting caldari scouts and I have made a topic about it before.
Even yesterday I unloaded an entire salvo with my scrambler rifle (amarr assault lvl 4) at a caldari scout from about 20/30m and did 0 damage. I put is down to insane strafing skills (it was against a sky background so was hard to see if there was any shield hit flare), but this kind of video makes you wonder. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1255
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Posted - 2014.06.15 18:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
I am thinking its more than just cal scouts. I think it has something to do with the cloak mechanism. When people are decloaking they are getting brief periods of invulnerability.
Youtube
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2376
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Posted - 2014.06.16 16:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Any status update on this CCP?
Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1261
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Posted - 2014.06.16 17:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Any status update on this CCP?
Suppose weekends aren't the best exposure times for posting issues.
CCP give the shotgun some MOAR lovin.
Youtube
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Boot Booter
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
580
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Posted - 2014.06.16 20:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
And here I was thinking that shotguns were overpowered. The video didn't really show any hit detection issues, possibly some lag that's all. If anything the video shows how a scout with ridiculous regen and strafe, combined with small hit boxes can dominate people 1v1 with little to no stealth required.
SMG Specialist
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Jaed D'jaegweir
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2014.06.16 22:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
I still do not understand why a shotgun is used in the FUTURE
"We do not live in a world of reality. We live in a world of perceptions." -Gerald Simmons
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1267
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Posted - 2014.06.17 01:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:And here I was thinking that shotguns were overpowered. The video didn't really show any hit detection issues, possibly some lag that's all. If anything the video shows how a scout with ridiculous regen and strafe, combined with small hit boxes can dominate people 1v1 with little to no stealth required.
???
So a direct hit causing no damage is "great" hit detection "working as intended"?
Youtube
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2029
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Posted - 2014.06.17 01:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jaed D'jaegweir wrote:I still do not understand why a shotgun is used in the FUTURE
As opposed to knives?
This is how a minja feels
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Thokk Nightshade
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
389
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Posted - 2014.06.18 01:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
I don't use shotguns a lot but I do use them in probably 10% of my matches. However, I'm not an expert by any means. My 2 ISK, though, is it seems that on any of the shots where it wasn't doing damage, you were either not really lined up with the target /off center or you were at a farther distance than the ones that were registering. A shotgun should be up close and personal. Once you start putting distance between you and the target, there will be shot dispersion and you shouldn't be doing nearly as much if any damage (that last part coming from someone who has used and shot REAL shotguns for about 25 years). However, like I said, I'm not an expert in game by any means. I just know when I'm using one, I'm almost in melee range so I've never encountered an issue with it.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1272
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Posted - 2014.06.18 17:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thokk thanks for your input. I think u are highlighting some of the main issues with the shotgun.
There is actually almost no dispersion. Which is why even slightly off ridicule shots miss. However in the video I highlight even direct hits registering no damage along with shots that should have clearly missed and did full damage (last two examples). When there is shield flare, there should be damage. When there are hit indicators there should be damage; currently that is not the case.
The shotgun should still be causing plenty of damage at less than 10m. While less effective it should be more than "just a tickle". The optimal range of the shotgun is 3.5m which means nearly nova knife range. At 3.5m it is nearly impossible to track a target.
Lastly, shotguns kill birds from greater than 25m, however dust doesn't have the same draw distance as "real life". The distances in dust are really wonky. Mercs are basically 8m tall with 1m strides. So real life shotguns unfortunately don't correlate to dust.
Youtube
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Thokk Nightshade
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
391
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Posted - 2014.06.18 22:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
yeah, I know the "real life" correlation is off by quite a bit. I just use that as my baseline when I talk about any weapons whether it is game or real (I had a huge rant on Sniper Rifles a couple months back). I agree with you on the shot dispersion issue (or lack there of, depending on your viewpoint). The shotguns in this game use full chokes to cut down almost any dispersion. I would prefer the idea of a modified choke where the closer someone is, there is more damage, but if I'm back a bit I can hit multiple targets with one blast due to the dispersion of pellets (which would also likely have less total DPS per target of course).
Yeah the video does clearly show what you're talking about. I've had a couple of those myself where it seems like if I'm more than 8 or so meters away, I can be center mass and the target doesn't take damage. The shield flare issue drives me nuts more than anything. The flare shows the shots are landing, but HP doesn't drop at all. Something doesn't add up.
However, I think hit detection is an issue with all weapons. I've used an HMG and have a scout walk THROUGH my stream of bullets at me and get 3 shotgun shots off and I die before he does. Something doesn't quite add up there to me. However, because of the high Alpha damage, slower rate of fire of a shotgun, it is more pronounced than with the other weapons.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1275
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Posted - 2014.06.19 03:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Do you notice which scout it is? Some think cal scouts are worse
Youtube
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Thokk Nightshade
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
393
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Posted - 2014.06.20 01:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yeah, I'm not positive. I think it is the cal Scouts but I've noticed it with all different scout suits to be honest with you.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1277
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yea I've heard a lot of people say scouts have hit detection issues. Its some what concerning.
Still no word from CCP on shotgun hit detection.... :(
Youtube
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1281
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Posted - 2014.06.23 16:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bump for shotgun justice
Youtube
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1331
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Posted - 2014.06.25 20:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
I want shotgun hugs to the FACE!
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
664
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Posted - 2014.06.27 21:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Well I was thinking swapping shield bonus and armor bonus around. Honestly the shield bonuses aren't necessary in close quarters. It's the armor we have to worry about. Swapping it would go a long way in helping and only a minor tweak. HD issues? Time for a Minmatar Solution. Give me a full auto projectile Shotgun CCP! Think USAS-12 EVE version /joking aside I honestly think that Shotguns are one of the few weapons that should get a flat bonus to damage like the Knives. For High Alpha weapons, you really need the ability to just CHEW through people. Exceptions are weapons with high alpha and range (Like the forge and ScR).
Wait, that was a joke? 
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
RISE of LEGION
1224
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Posted - 2014.06.30 18:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yea CCP - Go and watch that video. That is typical of how the shotgun is (its typical of how most weapons are). Score direct hits and do 0 damage. Yet sometimes you can miss by miles and yet still somehow ~hit~ them and do damage.
Investigate 9/11
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Grimmiers
612
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
If you pause at 1:30 you can see that the shotgun rounds are about one crosshair's width to the right of the heavy. This is because when strafing the shots will come out of where you're character is server side which with lag would be about 50ms to the right in that case. This is also why you can get shot around corners.
When strafing left and right with an automatic rifle you can see the bullet trails lagging behind when you shoot which is where your character is server side. This is why you get a lot more hits in when you lead your shots even though guns use hitscan instead of actual bullets. It's been like this since alpha with attempts to fix it using lag compensation and client side checks.
Also playing with the m/kb is extremely wonky. If you aim to fast you can see your bullets lagging behind and if you fire while jumping you can see your shots coming out of the gun above you. Trying to hit stationary enemies becomes a chore and a dancing target is a complete nightmare. |
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