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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
415
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Posted - 2014.06.13 23:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
This weapon is utterly OP. In one second you can just mow down scouts, and in two you mow down assaults. Granted the role of the heavy is to do a lot more damage but sacrifice speed, however there is too much damage. This is certainly evident from just the fact of when many of the weapons were nerfed in 1.8. However, the HMG was left untouched and furthermore had it's range buffed. Even though it didn't receive any future buffs, it did however gain an indirect buff due to the nerfs of all the other weapons. A single bullet does almost as much as a Six Kin Combat Rifle's, currently, yet it has twice the rate of fire. That means the HMG is doing almost twice the damage of a Six Kin, and the Six Kin is still an extremely deadly weapon.
In this respect I suggest the HMG receive a slight nerf, to balance it's power/role compared to the other weapons. When many weapons were nerfed in 1.8, they were generally nerfed by about 10%, and in the same manner, the HMG's firepower should be reduced from 18.00 to 16.00, (1.8 rounded to 2). This should and would balance out the HMG making balanced in comparison to other weapons.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
417
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Posted - 2014.06.14 03:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think it is very safe to say that there is a problem with the HMG. While many of you don't necessarily agree upon the damage nerf, there is consensus on reducing the turn speed, and I completely agree, because I've literally seen heavies just whip around in less than a second and mow down people carelessly. There needs to be a larger penalty associated with the HMG. I think one thing you all have to understand and haven't necessarily commented on is that while many of the weapons had their damage nerfed in 1.8, the HMG was the untouched. I agree, the heavy is close to a perfect position, but there are 2 things that make it so OP one of which I haven't mentioned.
1. The HMG output is incredible, however I will concede that this is the role of the heavy. As Lynn Beck said, heavies should be feared, however they shouldn't be able to do 360s and whiplashing scouts without even noticing. (You can even imagine this. A heavy feels a little tickle from a bad shotgun blast, then whips around while blasting his HMG with no aim, and suddenly sees a scout drop down to the ground, no longer moving. The player all of a sudden seems stunned, surprised with the amazing power the HMG holds.) It also makes sense that because heavies are "heavier," they should turn slower do to their weight/ weight of the weapon.
2. I think another important condition, which doesn't apply to everyone, and specifically scouts, is the Sprinting Glitch.
You all should agree that a immobile scout, is a dead scout. What I really don't understand is why it's been 4 updates, and CCP still hasn't fixed the bug. I get it whenever I immediately sprint after activating my cloak and after shooting my shotgun. As a scout, it is of utter importance for me to move immediately after firing my shotgun, because every second counts. And with the firepower of the HMG, it is impossible to avoid them with the sprinting glitch.
If these two issues were resolved, (I would even be happy if CCP did one of these things considering how long it's been and none of these issues have even been addressed), this game would be a lot more balanced and fun.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
423
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Posted - 2014.06.14 15:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
J4yne C0bb wrote:Bormir1r wrote:1. The HMG output is incredible, however I will concede that this is the role of the heavy. As Lynn Beck said, heavies should be feared, however they shouldn't be able to do 360s and whiplashing scouts without even noticing. (You can even imagine this. A heavy feels a little tickle from a bad shotgun blast, then whips around while blasting his HMG with no aim, and suddenly sees a scout drop down to the ground, no longer moving. The player all of a sudden seems stunned, surprised with the amazing power the HMG holds.) It also makes sense that because heavies are "heavier," they should turn slower do to their weight/ weight of the weapon. I'm sorry my man, but this simply is not an fair characterization of heavy vs. scout play, at least from the heavy perspective. It's true that you can turn much quicker than before, but it's still pretty easy to get pwned by a good shotgun scout or REs. And it's not simply a matter of whipping around then spray and pray -- even if I whip around quick enough, I still have to get a bead on the quick bastard and keep up with his quicker strafing ability to put him down. It takes maybe 2-3 good shots to end a heavy, and it's pretty easy to lose to a scout even if you do have time to whip around and fire, because by the time you do, he only needs one more killing shot. There's a lot more skill involved in evading a shotgun to the back of the head that you are giving heavies credit for. Not trying to be argumentative with you, just saying.
Ok, I can sympathize with the heavies, but you have to at least grant the fact that an immobile scout is a dead scout, and this comes from the sprinting glitch, and also the slug bullets which we're still experiencing now. Also it takes an average of 4 SG shots to kill a heavy, and up to 5 or 6 shots for a Gall Heavy, which to me makes it a little too hard to kill a heavy, and not taking into account the really bad hit detection from the shotgun.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
423
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Posted - 2014.06.14 16:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Bormir1r wrote:This weapon is utterly OP. In one second you can just mow down scouts, and in two you mow down assaults. Granted the role of the heavy is to do a lot more damage but sacrifice speed, however there is too much damage. This is certainly evident from just the fact of when many of the weapons were nerfed in 1.8. However, the HMG was left untouched and furthermore had it's range buffed. Even though it didn't receive any future buffs, it did however gain an indirect buff due to the nerfs of all the other weapons. A single bullet does almost as much as a Six Kin Combat Rifle's, currently, yet it has twice the rate of fire. That means the HMG is doing almost twice the damage of a Six Kin, and the Six Kin is still an extremely deadly weapon.
In this respect I suggest the HMG receive a slight nerf, to balance it's power/role compared to the other weapons. When many weapons were nerfed in 1.8, they were generally nerfed by about 10%, and in the same manner, the HMG's firepower should be reduced from 18.00 to 16.00, (1.8 rounded to 2). This should and would balance out the HMG making balanced in comparison to other weapons. TL;DR Heavies are too good at point defense (their role),nerf them! Unless you're talking about HMG+ Heavy + LAV killing,working as intended. Also, i've noticed a rather lethal weakness with heavies....over confidence in their high eHP,and most are situationally blind(tunnel vision). Try this... -See heavy -Plant REs as a trap -Shoot heavy once -Let the heavy "chase you" -Occasionally turn around and shoot,just enough to keep their attention -Lead them to the REs -Make a "last stand" ducking into and out of cover -Blow up REs - +50 kill For everything else theres mastercard.
Problem is that the sprinting glitch and slug bullets (from HMG) completely destroy the idea of "shooting once" and trying to get the heavy to chase you.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
423
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Posted - 2014.06.14 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:A question to those heavy defenders.
How do you counter heavy spam on an objective map? Not just a couple of heavies, but when the enemy team is spamming them.
Shotgun scouts don't work because you get gibbed by a HMG even if its not your target's one (and also if it's a high level sentinel it can take 4 shots to kill them, at which point they have most certainly turned around and killed you).
REs will get spotted if you start using them frequently against them.
No other class has a prayer of taking them on. You generally can't take them at range because in an objective there's cover and a lot of them will force you to within 20m of the heavy. The only TRUE counter is more heavys. I personally find the forge gun can be a deadly counter but its totally dependant on skill shots. None of this HMG spray and prey. There are a lot of ways to break that scenario, but basically what is happening is the heavy is very good at entrenching into an area and holding lesser frames off when he has radar and nanohive support. But this is EXACTLY how it should be. The heavy frame absorbs all of the benefits his team gives to him and becomes an avatar of destruction. Without those benefits he's just a big, dumb, blind giant. First of all, if you let them entrench in the first place and you need to pay the price for that. I'm tired of hearing my own guys complain about this, it's scrubby as hell. If you're attempting to win then it is not acceptable to let such a thing happen like it's a small deal and expect to get it back easily because your theoretical gun game is superior. That's some 13 year old "im good at video games why aren't i winning?" logic, and I saw it every day when I was playing. When someone clamps down on a point with large frames, you siege them. It's as simple as that. Back when I was playing PC every day even in FA we had people running into an objective over and over and over trying to take it and be the hero, or the more consolidated approach was to wait for 2 or 3 people and then push like it would make any real difference. That's just rolling the dice on hoping somebody on the enemy side wandered off and weakened their position. It's stupid. Was anybody going to high ground and shelling them with mass drivers? No. Rarely if ever. And that's a failure derived from ego. A siege has to be done in a methodical fashion. You surround an area, specifically from high ground, you shell the hell out of it and destroy all enemy equipment and cut off uplink and nanohive support. Then, when the enemy is widdled down, you move in as a team. Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:[
unforutntley the hmg's optimal reaches out to 40 with effective of 60.
ironically this is where the assault rifles ranges are. Bullshit. There is a thing called spread. You are losing 90% of your DPS from that range with the HMG. The rifles are not. I swear to god, talking to people who play this game is like having a back-and-fourth with a 12 year old who thinks they know something because they overheard one of their friends talking about it.
But what about the sprinting glitch and slug effect you experience from the HMG bullets? A scout that is frozen makes it completely pointless and is essentially suicide.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
423
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Posted - 2014.06.14 18:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Wait a sec, a scout complaining that he gets killed too quickly because he is using the suit with the lowest amount of HP? Get your passive scan skills up and you can shot heavys in the back. Thats what i do and i dont think that the HMG is OP. I play as scout, heavy and logi and know all up and downsides to it. heavys are there for close quarter point defense but have very crappy passive scanning skills.
Lol minmatar scout has zero passive skills under than hacking, which doesn't help for combat. Furthermore it also has the lowest eHP, and even though it's "slightly" faster, it's insignificant in terms of speed/strafing compared to the Gal scout.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
426
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Posted - 2014.06.14 19:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:They removed the slow-down from bullets in the recent hotfix. Anything you are experiencing is purely your imagination, and your imagination is no cause to ask for nerfs on an unrelated suit.
I still experience the sprinting glitch, which happens every time I fire my shotgun or activate my cloak and I immediately start sprinting after this action. Definitely not my imagination, and granted we don't need to nerf the HMG, but something needs to be done about this bug.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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