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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
92
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Posted - 2014.06.13 22:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
After playing with tanks for a while now I noticed quite a few problem with them, their handling and their stats. Things that should be hotfixed are marked with  .
Comparison Large Turrets:
Blaster DPS: 750/862,5/975 (+112,5)
Railgun DPS w\ charge: 1007,72/1158,88/1310,03 (+151,15)
R Splash DPS w\ charge: 125,09/143,86/162,62 (+18,76)
Missile DPS: 2766,66/3320/3593,33 (+553,34/+273,33)
M Splash DPS: 1000/1200/1300 (+200/+100)
Turning Speed B: 37-¦/sec
Turning Speed M: 24-¦/sec
Turning Speed R: 20-¦/sec
There should be two things everyone will notice:
1) The DPS progression of the missile turrets
This is one relict from early builds where missile where the FOTM when it came to Large Turrets. The Proto Missile turret should be changed back to where it was before with 563 direct damage and 210 Splash damage and a DPS of 3753,34 and Splash DPS of 1400
I-¦ll just assume CCP will hotfix this so I-¦ll take those values as basic for further calculations
2) The DPS differences between the turrets
They are simply huge. The changes below should even all this out.
The Blaster is a short ranged turret which means according to EVE design law it has the highest DPS and turning speed. But still it has to be somehow balanced against infantry so this is pretty much the top when it comes to DPS.
Proposed Large Blaster changes:
Lower the RoF and increase the damage by 5%.It now has the same RoF a Breach AR has which is simply not logical for a huge weapon like this. Also give it a steeper progression between tiers. New DPS should be 750/887,51/1025,03
Tighten the spread a bit and instead add a real kick of the turret like Missile turrets used to have (just not that strong). It should have a spread like an AR.
Add a HMG like reticule.
The Railgun as long ranged AV turret should have a lower DPS and the slowest turning speed. The lowest DPS should be especially true when you consider that most shots hit. Also as an AV turret it is too good against infantry mainly due to its large splash radius.
Proposed Large Railgun changes:
Reduce the Splash radius to 1m and increase it-¦s Splash damage by 15%. This will make it much harder to use against infantry but also more rewarding and in line with its high alpha. Splash Damage: 207/238/269
Reduce its fire delay to 1,2 and its damage by 40% and increase its charge time to 0,5. Its new DPS would be 692,9/796.85/900,79 (+103,95) which is a bit below Blaster DPS and more in favor of Either Range or DPS philosophy. The new Splash DPS would be 164/189/214 (+25)
Add a shaking while charging like the Forge Gun has. It won-¦t affect targeting large targets like tanks or dropships but it will become harder to hit infantry.
And now to Missile turrets, the black sheep of the Large turrets. They are on paper superior than any other turret but still it seems like ten people drive them regularly and one of them is my tank alt. They should fill the middle ground between AI and AV but should require a lot of player skill to be competitive with the specialized turrets.
As mentioned above where they often really good in BETA and of course CCP nerfed them into oblivion, that much that even now they-¦re still screwed. The main problems at the moment are its low splash, bad damage application and high skill requirements.
Proposed Large Missile turret changes:
Change the Skill requirements. For hybrid turrets you need Turret Operation at 1, for missile turrets you need 5 which is about 1,2 million SP more for large turrets. 1,2 Million! Please change it to a Gunnery Skill tree for turrets and a Missile skill tree like in EVE: Gunnery and Missiles Meanwhile a hotfix could simply change its requirement from 5 to 2 or 3 until a major patch comes out.
Increase the Turning speed by 25%. The current turning speed too low. Since it has a high rof and rather low alpha you have to follow your target to do good damage. 25% would change it from 24-¦/sec to 30-¦/sec.
Increase its fire delay to 0,3 and reduce its damage by 20%. Its damage would be 332/391,2/450,4 and its DPS is down to 1106,6/1304/1501,3. This is still the highest DPS but given you miss once (and you will miss) it drops quite rapidly. On longer range you will miss even more if you-¦re not really good so you will even drop below railgun DPS.
Increase its Splash Radius to 2,5 m and its Splash Damage by 40%. It supposed to be good against vehicles and infantry but that-¦s hardly possible with 1,5 m Splash radius and 150 Splash damage. Its Splash DPS would be 700/840/980 which is lower than Blaster DPS but again with a skilled Pilot that can land direct hits it-¦s better than a Blaster.
Fix the missile and explosion animation. It seems to be a bug but most of the time you don-¦t see any missiles flying and sometimes not even exploding. You just see that they leave and that they explode. Also add the old explosion animation to missiles, you often don-¦t see the new one.
Increase the angle you can look down. Anything closer than 10-15 meters is pretty much impossible to hit. Closer enemies should be harder to hit but mainly due to the tracking speed. I don-¦t know how much you can look down now but like 10-20-¦ more would be much better.
Increase missile speed. Just change the missile speed so that it-¦s new missile speed is like that of the accelerated missile launcher.
These are the things I-¦d change with Large turrets. It would put them more in line in terms of DPS and roles and balance them among them and infantry.
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 05:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:EDIT: Godin just realized that you had a spreadsheet, and it made way more sense. Get better at explaining **** in words, your spreadsheet says the exact opposite that you said (mostly). 
I'm sorry but I had to delete some things in order to not post a second post with like 300 characters
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 07:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:I see you want to reduce the splash damage on a weapon whose splash damage only triggers 1 out of every 8 shots... or unless shot from above. If the angle of the shot against the floor is sharper than 30* ßùÆ No splash will occur. And if they are shooting from overhead, you were probably never actually killed by splash damage, but a direct shot, so claiming that a reduction of splash would reduce the anti-infantry use is just frothing nonsense. As in padded room with the arms tied back nonsense.
Hell, what are you talking about? Missiles get huge buff to splash damage, Railgun get buff to splash damage. The only thing that's being reduced is their Splash DPSs!
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 08:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:AmlSeb wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:I see you want to reduce the splash damage on a weapon whose splash damage only triggers 1 out of every 8 shots... or unless shot from above. If the angle of the shot against the floor is sharper than 30* ßùÆ No splash will occur. And if they are shooting from overhead, you were probably never actually killed by splash damage, but a direct shot, so claiming that a reduction of splash would reduce the anti-infantry use is just frothing nonsense. As in padded room with the arms tied back nonsense. Hell, what are you talking about? Missiles get huge buff to splash damage, Railgun get buff to splash damage. The only thing that's being reduced is their Splash DPSs! Railgun splash is basically a joke told at gamer meetings. I will repeat, it does not exist at angles of impact less than 30*. What this means is you have to hit a section of land, or a wall, in order to get any splash damage to procure, that is tilted up off the parallel. The mere fact you think that railgun splash is a constant is the whole flaw in the topic... 90% of the time THERE IS NO SPLASH. Has been this way for 2+ years now.
1) Dust is not 2 yo, it is on 26th
2) I know how splash is calculated by the engine but still: Railgun should not have 2,5 meters splash radius
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
|
AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 09:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:AmlSeb wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:AmlSeb wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:I see you want to reduce the splash damage on a weapon whose splash damage only triggers 1 out of every 8 shots... or unless shot from above. If the angle of the shot against the floor is sharper than 30* ßùÆ No splash will occur. And if they are shooting from overhead, you were probably never actually killed by splash damage, but a direct shot, so claiming that a reduction of splash would reduce the anti-infantry use is just frothing nonsense. As in padded room with the arms tied back nonsense. Hell, what are you talking about? Missiles get huge buff to splash damage, Railgun get buff to splash damage. The only thing that's being reduced is their Splash DPSs! Railgun splash is basically a joke told at gamer meetings. I will repeat, it does not exist at angles of impact less than 30*. What this means is you have to hit a section of land, or a wall, in order to get any splash damage to procure, that is tilted up off the parallel. The mere fact you think that railgun splash is a constant is the whole flaw in the topic... 90% of the time THERE IS NO SPLASH. Has been this way for 2+ years now. 1) Dust is not 2 yo, it is on 26th 2) I know how splash is calculated by the engine but still: Railgun should not have 2,5 meters splash radius Splash damage only procures (If it happens at all) if the ceNTer of the dropsuit target is within 2.5 meters of the impact. In reality, that is less than a meter away. In fact, that's practically their shoes. Have you ever actually fired a railgun? Also, E3 2012 is when DUST opened... Around June 5th according to online records. I was there for Skirmish 1.0. Are you referring to the restart, when all the characters were archived as ancient, and given precursor status?
Release on PS Store was on 26th and that's the date it was available to the public, not just chosen ones
And Splash damage is taken based on percentage of the hitbox in the explosion radius. 50% of the box in the radius=center in the radius=100% damage, 25% in the radius= 50% damage
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
|
AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
95
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 16:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
I updated the OP:
Added "Increase the magazine size of missile turrets to 18"
Added "the old explosion physics for missiles"
Could Rattati have a look, please?
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
98
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 07:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
I upgraded the OP with the new stats for railgun turrets.
It-¦s Rof is good but the damage still needs to be a bit lower (-12%)
I also removed the reticule part from blaster turrets.
@Rattati: What of the proposed changes do you want to hotfix next and which points do you agree/not agree on?
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
|
AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
100
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 15:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:AmlSeb wrote:I upgraded the OP with the new stats for railgun turrets.
It-¦s Rof is good but the damage still needs to be a bit lower (-12%)
I also removed the reticule part from blaster turrets.
@Rattati: What of the proposed changes do you want to hotfix next and which points do you agree/not agree on? I don't like the idea of lowering its damage further; it's already getting hard to make the kills. Map design does not allow for long-term engagement at long range; the rail needs to be able to function well at about 100m, or it's worthless.
The alternative would be to further reduce the rof to reduce the dps. A railgun tank still beats a blaster tank in the blasters optimal range (two equivalent tanks, one shield, one armor) which must not be.
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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