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Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 848	Posted - 2014.06.13 02:23:00 - [1] - Quote While being singled out the most as a logi,some dumbasses want logis to be useless other than as pack mules. They can go screw themselves. Here's an example: I was running with a group and i had my gun out,a scout charged headlong into 3 Boundless HMGs and my MAGSEC then i tried to run (at 7.35m/s) the scout slows for 2 steps blasts me 1 time with a MLT shotgun and i lose 600 eHP at 15meters, and the scout escapes while being fired upon. This happened in an area that should've meant instant death. -1 Mk.0 fitting While defending myself against a shotgun scout i had him almost dead,but i needed to reload while this light suit called "scout" switched to his sidearm and finished me off. -1 Mk.0 fitting I took 600 damage from a basic RR at 75m. -1 Mk.0 fitting I got killed in 4 shots by any MLT AR fired in my direction. -1 Mk.0 fitting My specialisation being outclassed by scouts and basics. Presenting valid arguments as to why logis need speed or armor,get retorts and ignored by CCP. Presenting valid arguments that logis should be the best hackers,ignored by CCP and heckeled by OP "one man army" scout users. The buildings themselves are logistical class it makes sense logistical class suits should hack the fastest! Several times today i watched as OBs dropped on whole teams managed to kill only the logis,scouts with 200 eHP didn't take a scratch. Remembering that because of a "slayer logi" problem my whole damned class was nerfed (removed reps),yet "slayer scouts" got no such nerf (minimal 1-2% reduction).Instead everyone else was punished,especially logis (who have low armor yet oddly enough are slow) and heavies (their only job is to tank). Everyone being of the mentality of "you're the logi you're supposed to die". Trying to "speed tank" using 1 enh ferroscale plate instead of a regular plate,die just as fast because all units have insane turn speeds except heavies i've learned. Having to resort to brick tanking to survive,which is part of the original problem with slayer logis anyway. Logistics having to sacrifice for equipment slots,yet scouts don't. EG. Basic Cal Logistics 2 equipment slots Yet it costs them: Shields (120) Armor (80) Movement + Sprinting speed A sidearm For 2 + equipment +1 module at PRO. Why do logis brick tank? Wouldn't you if your medium frame had almost as much tank as a scout,with half it's speed? The answer is yes,yes you would. The way CCP has this system balanced they are essentially saying "a sports car (2 seater) can carry 4 people without discomfort or loss of speed" then they say "a sedan (4 seater) can carry 4 people but it'll cost a tire,a windshield,and all the airbags in the car" Crazy right? The sedan (logistics) must sacrifice for it's sole purpose,yet the sports car (scout) doesn't? Well,i'm getting fed up being punished for the actions of a few while being relegated to the back of the bus where logis "belong" and have begun the biomassing process on my alt. I have donated all my isk to my corp,and i will give CCP 2 more updates to give logistics a fair shake or i'll biomass my main.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 848	Posted - 2014.06.13 02:43:00 - [2] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: on my logi alt, Im loving the update Idk what you're running but you're doing it wrong. stack armor plates, 2 damage mods, 2 shields, and run an AR or ACR for dealing with pesky scouts, as these weapons work really quite well against them. Strafing helps too, as well as using cover (including your heavy) Really, there is no reason to complain that your role got buffed, and your slayer capacity got nerfed I knew some ******** would bring up "slayerlogis". My KDR .52 I kill only in self defense,i try to (un)successfully run away first. You run a slayer fit,i have 0 dmg mods,my weapon is a MAGSEC,i use a cardiac reg,complex recharger,enh ferroscale plate complex armor repair,3 enh shield extenders,1 enh shield recharger on my Mk.0 My job isn't to kill things its to survive and aid others in doing so. Take your "well you must be a noob logi" comment and go choke on it.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 848	Posted - 2014.06.13 02:45:00 - [3] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Trying to get people to balance in your favor based on arguments that anyone can see are presented with gross exaggeration is exactly how we end up with problems in this game and the community. Slandering other specializations simply because fotm is noxious is a bad way to go about getting the buffs you want. People are aware that there are issues with medium frames, ranting and raving just because you die in a proto suit is childish and immature. I`d suggest that if you want things, you express yourself in a composed logical manner, presenting actual points of evidence and information not just anecdotes and slander. Are you ******** or just blind? I put the Cal logi stats up,showing a gross imbalance.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 848	Posted - 2014.06.13 02:59:00 - [4] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Meee One wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Trying to get people to balance in your favor based on arguments that anyone can see are presented with gross exaggeration is exactly how we end up with problems in this game and the community. Slandering other specializations simply because fotm is noxious is a bad way to go about getting the buffs you want. People are aware that there are issues with medium frames, ranting and raving just because you die in a proto suit is childish and immature. I`d suggest that if you want things, you express yourself in a composed logical manner, presenting actual points of evidence and information not just anecdotes and slander. Are you ****** or just blind? I put the Cal logi stats up,showing a gross imbalance. Maybe you missed the whole ``people are aware there are issues with medium frames`` bit, so I have to pose your own question to you, are you **** or just blind? Yes,yes i am. But no one is trying to give logis a buff,it's always "give assaults more slots and lower logis" or "nerf logis hacking scouts should be the best". Everyone is trying to tear the logistics class apart and give nothing in exchange but "you're a logi you shouldn't be better at anything anyway". That is the** most assinine excuse i have hear for the "master support class" just nerf them to oblivion,need nanos?there's scouts etc. Logis get 0 respect and all the responses so far prove that.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 851	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:49:00 - [5] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Thought you ran the gk.0 I used to til 1.8 when i changed to a Mk.0 for the rep bonus. Boy was that a mistake,Min logis are about x10 easier to kill unless they brick tank.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 851	Posted - 2014.06.13 17:11:00 - [6] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Meee One wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Thought you ran the gk.0 I used to til 1.8 when i changed to a Mk.0 for the rep bonus. Boy was that a mistake,Min logis are about x10 easier to kill unless they brick tank. Whoa.. Min logi is the best by far. That rep bonus is absurd. Find a gallente heavy and use the core focused rep... You actually can't lose. Except vs snipers,REs,HMG shots to the back (using a LAV), shotgun scouts that can't be hit let alone killed,allies that ignore the fact you're 100% defenseless while repping,grenade spam,MDs,that basic RR 75m away, ADS + HAVs that can see the rep tool line (any of them). Yes Min do have slots,but everyone always targets the defenseless rep tool user first.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 851	Posted - 2014.06.14 06:20:00 - [7] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Gemini Cuspid wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Trying to get people to balance in your favor based on arguments that anyone can see are presented with gross exaggeration is exactly how we end up with problems in this game and the community. Slandering other specializations simply because fotm is noxious is a bad way to go about getting the buffs you want. People are aware that there are issues with medium frames, ranting and raving just because you die in a proto suit is childish and immature. I`d suggest that if you want things, you express yourself in a composed logical manner, presenting actual points of evidence and information not just anecdotes and slander. Has nothing to do with the "making the game balanced" at any rate. Scouts can stack armors with the speed advantages and overall, to get the same effect as a scout, a logi can't ever do. A scout shouldn't be there also replacing the role of the assault suit but, it really is no one's arguing that as being false. The game is really w/e wpn's are best and a scout and heavy frame at the moment. Kind of getting tired of always using an assault or logi suit in the end. It really has to do with the Assault and Logi having no real purpose at this stage of the game....vehicles can pretty much stand already high rates of damage and come back in 30 seconds fully repaired shrugs. Scouts can utilize it's overall speed and high armor rating that can pass up an assault to avoid shots and take them in equal measure. A heavy frame can use repairs but the change in HMG does make it less likely they need as many repairs. The extra slots to scout give way instead of too cloaks to additional hives; not having only one to work with still goes to their favor. It's one thing to rant off and another to keep pointing to the obvious. Maybe CCP will survive, who knows. I jsut know they can't keep depending on EVE for income and Dust seems like it's not going to be a cash cow for them like in the past. If you idiots stop asking for the wrong nerfs and buffs, maybe it wouldn't be like this? So you're saying a scout being able to carry as much as a logistics is ok? You think it's ok for logistics to sacrifice weaponry to carry extra equipment,but scouts shouldn't have to? You think it's ok for logistics to sacrifice base stats for extra equipment,but scouts shouldn't have to? You think it's ok to nerf the whole logistics class by removing reps (their class bonus) because of a "slayer logi" problem,yet scouts retain theirs after the "slayer scout" problem? You think it's ok to punish those that rely on plates the most by making them slower (logistics has low base stats and speed while heavies were already slow)? Putting those points aside... Important to remember: Logistics is supposed to be the master support class,unsurpassed at giving support such as hacking and equipment. Scouts in 1.8 received buffs that spit right in logistics faces and by not nerfing their equipment slots or removing a weapon slot CCP hit logistics in the gut and said "deal with it". And CCP Rat is even considering giving Min scouts a higher hack speed then their logistics counter part. Just imagine a scout being able to hack a logistics class building faster than the logistics class suits themselves,that's insane! Which is why,if they decide to willingly sink the ship i'm getting off. I can only handle so much retardation and CCP loves being ********.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 851	Posted - 2014.06.14 08:38:00 - [8] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I think the problem is the m in mk.0 that really should be a g EDIT: Scouts don't sacrifice a sidearm for 2 EQ slots Logis have 3 therefore the sacrifice must occur. About you're moronic statement (see underlined). Meee One wrote: The way CCP has this system balanced they are essentially saying "a sports car (2 seater) can carry 4 people without discomfort or loss of speed" then they say "a sedan (4 seater) can carry 4 people but it'll cost a tire,a windshield,and all the airbags in the car" Crazy right? The sedan (logistics) must sacrifice for it's sole purpose,yet the sports car (scout) doesn't? All logistics but the Cal logistics. Cal logistics has to sacrifice for +1 at basic. So you think logistics must sacrifice when it was specifically designed for that purpose? Yet scouts which weren't shouldn't have to? Simply amazing how stupid you are,it baffels my mind.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 851	Posted - 2014.06.14 08:42:00 - [9] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: I have been a logi from..umh... forever more or less and i agree that with scouts having 2 equip slots logis needs a bit more hp (still less that assaults) or more speed (same as assaults). The problem is evident with standard caldari logis that have the same equip as a scout but less spees, a bigger profile and about the same hp and slots. +1 someone else sees the problem too...
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 853	Posted - 2014.06.14 09:58:00 - [10] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: Okay, i played a few games and realized that my standard fit gallente logi, compared to a standard-fit Gallente Scout: -Have LESS hp (10 or so) -Is slower (by a lot) -Have a much bigger hitbox -Is a lot easier to scan -Have no sidearm -Cannot fit a damage mod +Have 1 more equipment slot. I ended up playing agains a team of full proto gallente scouts and ALL of the had as much hp as my stacked plated gallente logis, while being faster, more armed, harder to hit with the only drawback of having 1 less equpement slot. Off Topic: I think i'll just quit dust, after 2 years of "developemet" ccp achieved nothing, the game looks crap, doesen't have any of the promised features and ccp can't balance ****. The freaking Star Citizen PRE ALPHA is more stable and less laggy/buggy than dust I know exactly how you feel.... It's as if CCP says "what is the worst thing we can do to Dust?" then they do it with 0 consideration for the players they anger or balance they obliterate/classes they make irrelevant.

Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 853	Posted - 2014.06.14 10:04:00 - [11] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Logi need a new slot layout to help you play with lower tier logi and be in par with other suit of your same tier level. Another thing is the bonus on equipments, it's too restrictive, all the medium frames (logi and assaults) should have bonus for their survavibility. Something like: -10% armor plates movement penalty per level (good for a revisited amarr logi) +5% walking speed per level (good for a minlogi, to follow other suits) (min logi have always been the best for RRR imo) +5% armor repper efficiency per level (old amarr bonus, would give it to gal logi) +5% shield extender efficiency per level (old bonus, but if they revisit the cal logi with a 5-3-4 layout it would not be scandalous) I would give better e-war capabilites, to make logi a mid way from scouts and assaults, something like 45 profile, 48 prec and 20 meters range. Then i would proceed to adjust all scouts profile signature to be 39 (instead of 35), precision to be 43 (instead of 40) and a buff on range to be 25 meters. Cal and gal should get another bonus set (nothing related to EW), then they would be balanced with other scouts. Also, minscout should lose bonus on NK and keep a single bonus. After all these efforts, i would cut Heavy eHP by 10% and everything would be alright, imo. Being support based,logistics should have the highest base e-war out of the medium frames. But the same bonuses wouldn't help balance,it would cause roles to overlap. Unless those were race based bonuses. Even then logistics is still the slowest and weakest medium frame,and that has to change. Logis need speed or tank,because currently they lack both.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 857	Posted - 2014.06.14 20:04:00 - [12] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Meee One wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I think the problem is the m in mk.0 that really should be a g EDIT: Scouts don't sacrifice a sidearm for 2 EQ slots Logis have 3 therefore the sacrifice must occur. About you're moronic statement (see underlined). Meee One wrote: The way CCP has this system balanced they are essentially saying "a sports car (2 seater) can carry 4 people without discomfort or loss of speed" then they say "a sedan (4 seater) can carry 4 people but it'll cost a tire,a windshield,and all the airbags in the car" Crazy right? The sedan (logistics) must sacrifice for it's sole purpose,yet the sports car (scout) doesn't? All logistics but the Cal logistics. Cal logistics has to sacrifice for +1 at basic. So you think logistics must sacrifice when it was specifically designed for that purpose? Yet scouts which weren't shouldn't have to? Simply amazing how stupid you are,it baffels my mind. Yo go way out of your way to be aggressive that's what is confusing. So this is an issue with the Callogi then, because I have never used a Callogi only Gall and Amarr. The Amarr Logi is on par with scouts so what's the issue there? In fact don't Amarr Logis get 3 EQ at proto with a Sidearm when scouts have a consistent two? Gallogi follows the progression of 3 EQ without a sidearm and even get four (+2) for a sidearm. So your whole point is on the Caldari? Yet for your story you used mk.0 - that's confusing - So yes in the end I think that if you have 2 EQ you should have a sidearm. 3 lose the sidearm. Proto assaults get two EQ and a sidearm. The scouts are no different from Amarr Logi in terms of fitting layout so you are complaining specifically on scouts, as if scouts are the scapegoat for your beef with CCP sweeping logis under the rug. Why don't you take on the Logistics quit trying to inadvertently **** with scout suits it took fricken months upon months of feedback to get them to even halfway decent spot. And now that CCP screwed up and made them a little too good you flip the barn and call witchhunt because one of four of your toys has a broken EQ slot...... Dude chase the Logistics trail and stick to that because Logistics is what you know. You're right about that part atleast. (see underlined) Which is how i know logistics base stats shouldn't be so low,and scouts shouldn't retain all of theirs while being in direct competition with the logistics class. Logistics is the only class that shouldn't suffer because of equipment,yet currently are the only ones that do. Scouts should suffer for competing with logistics. Just as logistics suffers for competing with assaults (Loss of a sidearm). I'm not asking to be better in anything but support: -Movement/Sprinting speed 2nd only to scouts -#1 in hacking -#1 in e-war out of the medium frames -Buff eHP to basic level If scouts were buffed to #2 in hacking (except Min which at lv 5 would be equal with it's logistics counterpart), and either lost an equipment slot or had their stats lowered (to copy logistics). And assaults were buffed above basics but below commandos in base eHP,with no loss of speed. Commandos got +1 slot for their preferred tank,and +1 grenade slot. It would be better balanced,and make specialisation mean something besides becoming a different colored suit (in the case of assaults),or becoming a slow and frail packmule (in the case of logistics). Specialisation is supposed to be an overall improvement not a degrade,basics are supposed to be the worst because of their lack of specialisation and SP investment.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 858	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:14:00 - [13] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Meee One wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I think the problem is the m in mk.0 that really should be a g EDIT: Scouts don't sacrifice a sidearm for 2 EQ slots Logis have 3 therefore the sacrifice must occur. About you're moronic statement (see underlined). Meee One wrote: The way CCP has this system balanced they are essentially saying "a sports car (2 seater) can carry 4 people without discomfort or loss of speed" then they say "a sedan (4 seater) can carry 4 people but it'll cost a tire,a windshield,and all the airbags in the car" Crazy right? The sedan (logistics) must sacrifice for it's sole purpose,yet the sports car (scout) doesn't? All logistics but the Cal logistics. Cal logistics has to sacrifice for +1 at basic. So you think logistics must sacrifice when it was specifically designed for that purpose? Yet scouts which weren't shouldn't have to? Simply amazing how stupid you are,it baffels my mind. Yo go way out of your way to be aggressive that's what is confusing. So this is an issue with the Callogi then, because I have never used a Callogi only Gall and Amarr. The Amarr Logi is on par with scouts so what's the issue there? In fact don't Amarr Logis get 3 EQ at proto with a Sidearm when scouts have a consistent two? Gallogi follows the progression of 3 EQ without a sidearm and even get four (+2) for a sidearm. So your whole point is on the Caldari? Yet for your story you used mk.0 - that's confusing - So yes in the end I think that if you have 2 EQ you should have a sidearm. 3 lose the sidearm. Proto assaults get two EQ and a sidearm. The scouts are no different from Amarr Logi in terms of fitting layout so you are complaining specifically on scouts, as if scouts are the scapegoat for your beef with CCP sweeping logis under the rug. Why don't you take on the Logistics quit trying to inadvertently **** with scout suits it took fricken months upon months of feedback to get them to even halfway decent spot. And now that CCP screwed up and made them a little too good you flip the barn and call witchhunt because one of four of your toys has a broken EQ slot...... Dude chase the Logistics trail and stick to that because Logistics is what you know. You fail to see the problem. The problem is not that logis don't have a sidearm, that is perfectly fine. The problem is not that scouts have 2 equip slots, they had them in closed beta too. The problem is that scouts have a sidearm, 2 equip slots and THE SAME HP AS LOGI WHILE BEING FASTER AND HARDER TO SCAN. If the caldari logi had significant more hp than a caldari scout and wasn't so slow it would be a valid alternative. Currently scouts are straight up better(basic and advanced caldari/amarr) or near as good (all the others) as logis at doing the logis work, while also being good at their own role. +1
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 858	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:32:00 - [14] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: You fail to see the problem. The problem is not that logis don't have a sidearm, that is perfectly fine. The problem is not that scouts have 2 equip slots, they had them in closed beta too. The problem is that scouts have a sidearm, 2 equip slots and THE SAME HP AS LOGI WHILE BEING FASTER AND HARDER TO SCAN. If the caldari logi had significant more hp than a caldari scout and wasn't so slow it would be a valid alternative. Currently scouts are straight up better(basic and advanced caldari/amarr) or near as good (all the others) as logis at doing the logis work, while also being good at their own role. I fail to see a reason to make changes to scouts to fix logistics so we can have logis still take the place of assault suits . obviously changes should be made to logistics so it can have a noticeable advantage in its role over scouts yet unable to persist in occupying the role of assaults TL;DR NURF DEM SLOTZ. lolno,CCP has stated there will be modules that further increase equipment efficiency and logistics is future proofed for that. And scouts are occupying assaults role better than even "slayer logis" could. So scouts are negating 2 suits logistics and assaults. Whilst sacrificing nothing and even out performing both.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 858	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:56:00 - [15] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Meee One wrote: TL;DR NURF DEM SLOTZ. lolno,CCP has stated there will be modules that further increase equipment efficiency and logistics is future proofed for that. And scouts are occupying assaults role better than even "slayer logis" could. So scouts are negating 2 suits logistics and assaults. Whilst sacrificing nothing and even out performing both. Scout suit is out performing assaults at assaulting but so are logis so .... Logis are not,especially if they brick tank. If they do they move as fast as a heavy. Assaults can achieve similar results with less speed loss and more damage potential.