Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2418
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Posted - 2014.06.12 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm curious if a tweak for logi reps could involve increasing the lock time for the different repair tools. All tools have the same lock-on loss and interrupt time, which I don't really know how each work.
I think tweaking the lock on time of the tools would do a couple of things. It would increase the risk of committing a logi to do reps. If it breaks a lock, it is that much more difficult for it to re-lock to provide support. So Logis would have to maintain LOS, making them a tiny bit more vulnerable in order to stay effective.
So the suggestion: Currently lock on time is .5s I think (with a .3s lock on interrupt time?).
Make the regular repair tools have a 1s lock on time.
Make the triage and focused tools have a 1.5s lock on time.
Let the flux repair tools keep the .5s lock on time.
Perhaps increase this even a little more on the triage tools as they go up the line in effectiveness.
So if you want to provide stronger reps, you need to 'commit' to the reps. This would mean that if you suprise a heavy with logi support you get a bit more of a window to take it out if the logi isn't paying close attention. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2418
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 16:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Why do they need changing? It's not like a logi can out-DPS incoming damage in the first place, and a second person with a gun will neutralise that heavy-logi pretty efficiently.
Especially with buffed Cores.
They're also tethered to pretty much the same spot thanks to the low speeds of a heavy optimised for supported play (i.e. plated).
In the end, committing a logi to reps does a few things: it removes a gun from the battlefield, it decreases your squad's mobility, it occupies an equipment slot (this is actually a big one for me; as an Amarr Logistics I really have to work to justify the use of one of my three slots) and it prevents your logi doing things like hacking, which should really be a logi's role (as opposed to the heavy he's tethering).
EDIT: basically, rather than asserting 'thing is broke' and advocating a fix, I would really like for you to explain to me why you feel it's broken, and why you feel that this is an appropriate fix.
I don't prefer to use the term "broken". It tends to be hyperbolic. As I explained earlier, one reason is that the CPU efficiency of logi reps inside of a team FAR outweighs the core bonus that shield repair CPU related efficiency can get even with stacking multiple energizers. Not only that, but these repairs are instantaneous.
Also, yes, inside the range of the heavy's HMG, you can quite easily break logi reps. On many or most socket points however, it is quite difficult to apply mid or long range burst DPS against a heavy when they are near cover. This makes getting a heavy+logi combo onto the guarded point a near requirement, and if this combination is detected at any point by a scout or scan during its approach its a very easy target to take out over open ground.
Behind cover, in PC, it is quite difficult to really concentrate fire in a kind of 3v1 situation. Because of friendly fire, players have to be very careful when approaching a target not to walk into friendly fields of fire. For this reason, heavies are rarely put in situations where their DPS vs. enemies is significantly lower than the attacker, unless it involves other heavies.
All of these reasons are explanations for why heavies are good meatshields with useful damage, but do not explain why the logi reps provide a possibly unbalanced advantage to the combination. However, I still cite my explanation of CPU repair efficiency as a primary reason. Especially behind heavy cover, where the attacker must expose a limited ability to return fire with lighter and/or slower suits, the calculus isn't as simple as "having a committed logi repper's lack of a gun is fair". The arguement only applies when it is significanly easier to outnumber the logi+heavy combination with a higher rate DPS and a survivable amount of tank.
Simply getting within LOS, undetected, with the amount of DPS and eHP to down a heavy is a quite difficult feat in PC. Currently, the defending heavy/logi combo can safely return fire, often with equal firepower, if not superior in most situations, because of the simple superiority of defensive scanning (fairly balanced atm IMO). Additionally, they can have more efficient total team/squad CPU usage to restore their squad to maximum HP in a shorter timeframe.
So in summary, the response that 'the logi's gun is off the field' only applies in situations where you can simply apply much more firepower against heavys. In situations where their mobility doesn't matter, and additional equipment slots aren't as important to a logi, the rest of the drawbacks of the heavy logi combo are pretty insignificant. The attacking team basically needs the combined DPS/survivability to eliminate the whole defending squad, as the logi will likely be able to quickly raise the heavy to return its firepower to battle.
This really wouldn't change much. It would just allow for a little bit more of a dynamic whereby, the firepower of the defending logi would be reduced relative to attackers.
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2420
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 16:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:I appreciate the rapid response!
I see your argument, and it's pretty solid. I could definitely support a change like this (potentially. I'd need to think about it in the morning).
Re: the PC part of your argument, as you said this wouldn't change all that much about a heavy-logi defensive pair. Would a buff ( more significant than the one we've just seen) to rechargers and regulators be more useful than a minor nerf to the efficiency of the rep tool?
I do think a buff would certainly help. If you look at the ongoing bravo notes it does look like some significant changes are in store. But even still, shield reps are a little more oriented toward a defensive recovery, while remote reps favor situations where heavy+logi pairs can at least expose the heavy to fire. A logi repping armor can rep something like 20s to 60s worth of the best shield reps during the 5s-8s that a shield tanker is pausing to start to get their shield back. This means its then in the heavy's interest to pursue a weakened attacker with the logi following. This change could then expose the pair just a little more in favor of the attacker. |