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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
364
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Posted - 2014.06.10 00:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
so, my idea is based in kin cats. I think if we replace the hacking bonus by making it an innate quality of the suit (i.e. buffing the base hacking speed of the scout by 25%) we can fill that missing bonus slot with a bonus to kin cats.
Why not just innate speed, one may ask?
Well, if it was, then it would just encourage armor tanking, which is bad and will get the suit into OP status, and finally nerfed into the ground.
What about the hit detection, the more discerning forum lurker may wonder?
So, if my idea was to go through, there would have to be a HARD speed cap, meaning that if the speed of the suit exceeded 11.12 m/s, the speed would simply be reduced to the maximum possible value (or 11.12 m/s).
The coding for this would be very simple-
if (drop_suit.speed>11.12)
{
drop_suit.speed=11.12;
}
and would not require a server side change (i don't believe)
My Idea:
So, for a min scout to be viable it needs AT LEAST 2 dampeners to dodge scans, which doesn't even bring it under 3x PE cal scout scans (another problem btw)
However, by doing this, it loses out on the ability to speed tank, which is what the suit is designed for. My idea would be to require the minmitar scout to only need one kin cat to reach above 11 m/s at maximum level, in addition to giving the scout a bonus to movement speed from kinetic catalyzers.
What this solves:
Two birds with one stone. The reason the minmitar scout is so PG starved is because the people who run it need to stack kinetic catalyzers to use the suits most valuable aspect-its speed. However, by staking kin cats, they lose the ability to dampen their suit, which greatly lowers minmitar scout viability, especially in PC matches.
Now for the math:
max speed=11.12
base speed with biotics maxed=8.3055
necessary increase to speed to reach 11.12 m/s=11.12/8.3055=33.89%
kinetic catalyzer (complex) base bonus=12%
what we want-33.89%
so, 12x=33.89
solve for x, and we get that the kinetic catalyzers must give minmitar scouts 2.8 (approx) times what they currently give in terms of a bonus, which we will then bring down to 2.5 times so that it is divisible by 5, and say that minmitar scouts receive a 50% efficacy bonus per level to kinetic catalyzers.
Speed with 1x kincat=7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*2.5))=10.92 m/s, and then if we change the kin cat skill bonus to 2% per level, we get that with maxed skills and this proposed bonus, minmitar scouts will run at 11.05 m/s with a single kin cat. This also creates a trade off as well for maximum speed for running to those objectives in a PC, but doesn't make it so that it gimps your suit as well.
Move Speed bonus:
per kincat, movement sped would be increased by 10% of the catalyzers sprint bonus per level, capping out at the movement speed a min scout would get from a single complex catalyzer, or 6%. (this would be % of the base sprint speed, not with the bonus)
Max movement speed would look like-5.65*1.06=5.99 m/s
Or, we could just add a 2/3/4% bonus to move speed for kin cats in their respective tiers and have the bonus affect that
Tell me what you guys think.
OP, UP, balanced stupid, too hard, or what?
TLDR (whatever the hell that means)
make hack bonus inherent to the suit and add 50% bonus to kin cats per level and give kin cats a move speed bonus either exclusive or non-exclusive to the min scout.
Also, whatever you want to say, please do so respectfully  thanks guys!
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
364
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Posted - 2014.06.10 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:...and being able to truly speed tank with only one complex kinkat.
Thats what my entire suggestion is about :)
Right now, against most competent opponents, every city squad will have a caldari scout built for precision /range that is unbeatable by min scouts. I believe that the suit needs this buff so it doesn't have to worry about speed and can simply use its other low slots to dampen with. 2 complex damps on any scout should also beat anything other than a gallogi focused scan
in other words, gallogi active scans should be > cal scout passives no matter what mods you put not the suit
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
366
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Posted - 2014.06.10 01:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Game has a speed cap. Increasing speeds would break hit detection. I refuse to have scouts running through my bullets.
Nope.
please read my post.
i would appreciate that.
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
366
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 01:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Game has a speed cap. Increasing speeds would break hit detection. I refuse to have scouts running through my bullets.
Nope.
I suspect there IS a hard speed cap already, and we're right on the edge.
As well as that, I seriously doubt adding such a speed cap would be possible to hotfix in.
Which means adding your bonus = break hit detection.
i dont believe their is a speed cap- was in a squad the other day with someone running above 13 m/s with those yellow bottles that some people got a while ago. but i do belevie that it would be a very easy client side fix (no new content, literally just a basic coding change)
Also, thanks for reading my post
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
366
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 01:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
D4GG3R wrote:............................................ It already is PC viable. quit using it as a slayer and go hack stuff. I do it all the time. throw on 3 complex codebreakers and 3 complex shield extenders. over 400 ehp with a shotty. THEN HACK THE F*CK OUT OF EVERYTHING.
and you can still slay with it I guess:D
its supposed to be the slayer scout. not the gallente. not the caldari. not even the amarr.
Source-post by CCP logibro or Rattati a few weeks ago
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
366
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 01:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
D4GG3R wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:D4GG3R wrote:............................................ It already is PC viable. quit using it as a slayer and go hack stuff. I do it all the time. throw on 3 complex codebreakers and 3 complex shield extenders. over 400 ehp with a shotty. THEN HACK THE F*CK OUT OF EVERYTHING.
and you can still slay with it I guess:D its supposed to be the slayer scout. not the gallente. not the caldari. not even the amarr. Source-post by CCP logibro or Rattati a few weeks ago NO. It has a perfect role in PC, it is perfectly viable.
Which is....?
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
367
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Posted - 2014.06.10 02:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:D4GG3R wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:D4GG3R wrote:
NO. It has a perfect role in PC, it is perfectly viable.
Which is....? Hacking. It hacks sh it. thats what it does. you know, the most important thing about PC??? Yup! Hide, don't die, hack, don't die lol
Which is nice on paper, but when you get scanned from 40 m away before you can get close to an objective by a cal scout with an ACR and a squad full of gal heavies with boundless HMG's....being able to hack a second faster than other suits doesn't do you much good if you get killed before you can get close to the objective
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
368
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 03:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Lolno,you want there to be 0 escape from a scout.
600 damage shotgun + 11 m/s sprint = heavy + LAV
Scouts need 0 "love" you're an idiot.
ahhhh the troll bait is on the table, and I am considering biting....
Hmmm, lets just look through all the fallacies with your statements....
First define "0 escape". If you have a weapon and are capable of aiming, my 400 max HP will be gone in a second (literally-Fine Rifles average around 420 DPS).
Second, the shotgun does not do 600 damage, barely above 500 at proto, and requires aim and timing and positioning, something that most medium frames and heavies with no concept of tactics just don't seem to be able to grasp.
Third, 11 m/s sprint speed is very easily achievable, albeit with some serious sacrifices to the other properties of the suit.
Fourth, LAV's travel much faster than any suit in the game could hope to reach.
Fifth, heavies have 3-8x as much HP as scouts, and a weapon with over twice the DPS of the shotgun and 6-7 times the range.
Sixth, not all scouts are caldari and gallente. Somewhere on a mystical island exists a unicorn known as the minmitar scout, and a fairy princess called the amarr scout. These are both in need of love.
Seventh, calling someone an idiot invalidates all of your previous points, as it shows that you are unwilling/incapable of holding a rational discussion.
Eighth, I would recommend a semi colon; it would make your sentences much more coherent.
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
370
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 03:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
D4GG3R wrote:
I ran it in PC against DDB the other day in a PC and went 17-4 and hacked the hell out of that map with a min scout. Just keep your distance amd have cal scout in your squad, then that cal scout on the other side has literally no advantage over you. It 100% do-able.
No offense, but your argument would have been so much better if you hadn't included the name of the afore mentioned corp. If you had said a better corp, I would have been convinced.
Also, I have never seen you run a min scout before. Maybe we should squad sometime and you could indulge me upon your secrets to success?
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
373
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Posted - 2014.06.10 04:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I would be in favor of a PG Increase on Matari Scouts, which it does need to bring itself in-line with the other Scouts.
Thats a much more conservative change, and I'd accept it as well as a buff to the sprint and move speed of the min scout right now (5-10% range)
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
373
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Posted - 2014.06.10 04:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
D4GG3R wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:D4GG3R wrote:
I ran it in PC against DDB the other day in a PC and went 17-4 and hacked the hell out of that map with a min scout. Just keep your distance amd have cal scout in your squad, then that cal scout on the other side has literally no advantage over you. It 100% do-able.
No offense, but your argument would have been so much better if you hadn't included the name of the afore mentioned corp. If you had said a better corp, I would have been convinced. Also, I have never seen you run a min scout before. Maybe we should squad sometime and you could indulge me upon your secrets to success? Yeah....... Thats true, I kinda ****** my point up there.. Okay lets do it :D
Haha cool. Ill prob be on tomorrow at like 4 or 5 EST if you have time then
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
|
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
380
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Posted - 2014.06.10 11:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:D4GG3R wrote:............................................ It already is PC viable. quit using it as a slayer and go hack stuff. I do it all the time. throw on 3 complex codebreakers and 3 complex shield extenders. over 400 ehp with a shotty. THEN HACK THE F*CK OUT OF EVERYTHING.
and you can still slay with it I guess:D Any decent team will pick you up with scans and kill you before you get in range. I've said it before, and i'll say it again. SCANNED SCOUT IS DEAD SCOUT IN PC
yeah pretty much this. Whenever i'm in a PC against a decent team, i simply feel useless due to the fact that the only thing I'm capable of doing is hacking an objective that we've already SECURED. Meaning my bonus is somewhat useless.
Ninja hacking only works at the very beginning of the game, before the cal scouts are anywhere near any of the objectives
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
385
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Posted - 2014.06.10 19:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:To the OP... Doing anything HARDCODED is always bad in programming and especially bad in gaming. It's where you run into those pesky bugs and glitches.
On a side note, as a Minmatar scout I wholeheartedly believe that we are the weakest god damned scouts on the field. I'm getting wrecked every single encounter. Speed tanking is a laughable joke right now. Trying to get any sensible tank just means we're completely visible to the Cal scout and blind to Gal scouts. Heavies rip through us with one burst of the HMG which is infuriating in itself.
Off the top of my head I have no solutions for the Min Scout. What I imagine would help would be another High or Low slot with some extra pg/cpu for "SOMETHING"... But I just don't know what would help right now without making it OP.
I'll have my Caldari Scout by the end of the week so either way, it seems the only way to compete right now is chasing the fotm, you know that suit that can see everything and has horribly broken hit detection... Yeah, that Caldari scout is what I'm talking about... You'll be mine in a week.
i know, i was being semi-fececious to show how easy a speed cap would be to implement
other than that, I 100000% agree with you, as all of your points are completely valid
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
|
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
385
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 19:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:I've found a secondary role I like for the min scout as a grenadier at long range. You paper-tank it with a 63m detection at 21m db precision and it will see about everything out there. Combine that with nanohives and either cloaks or more nanohives and you have something that can point out whole squads and cause a lot of distracting explosions.
Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of brawling inside of 50m. Rarely is that necessary for more than a few seconds at the majority of points on a map.
....and then you get into a PC...
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
389
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Posted - 2014.06.10 21:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:I've found a secondary role I like for the min scout as a grenadier at long range. You paper-tank it with a 63m detection at 21m db precision and it will see about everything out there. Combine that with nanohives and either cloaks or more nanohives and you have something that can point out whole squads and cause a lot of distracting explosions.
Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of brawling inside of 50m. Rarely is that necessary for more than a few seconds at the majority of points on a map. But a Calscout or Galscout would do that better.
mainly the cal scout
gallente is only for those who can't do without a 700 armor buffer
or for those who are really good at scouts lol
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
|
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
394
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Posted - 2014.06.11 01:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
bump for justice
Also, the amarr scout should have scan range, and dampening from modules should contribute to invisibility of the cloak
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
|
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
396
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 11:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Eko Sol wrote:...and being able to truly speed tank with only one complex kinkat. Thats what my entire suggestion is about :) Right now, against most competent opponents, every city squad will have a caldari scout built for precision /range that is unbeatable by min scouts. I believe that the suit needs this buff so it doesn't have to worry about speed and can simply use its other low slots to dampen with. 2 complex damps on any scout should also beat anything other than a gallogi focused scan in other words, gallogi active scans should be > cal scout passives no matter what mods you put not the suit You misspelled scout and nerf in your sig
lol thanks
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
|
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
403
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Posted - 2014.06.12 00:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Meee One wrote:Lolno,you want there to be 0 escape from a scout.
600 damage shotgun + 11 m/s sprint = heavy + LAV
Scouts need 0 "love" you're an idiot. ahhhh the troll bait is on the table, and I am considering biting.... Hmmm, lets just look through all the fallacies with your statements.... First define "0 escape". If you have a weapon and are capable of aiming, my 400 max HP will be gone in a second (literally-Fine Rifles average around 420 DPS). Second, the shotgun does not do 600 damage, barely above 500 at proto, and requires aim and timing and positioning, something that most medium frames and heavies with no concept of tactics just don't seem to be able to grasp. Third, 11 m/s sprint speed is very easily achievable, albeit with some serious sacrifices to the other properties of the suit. Fourth, LAV's travel much faster than any suit in the game could hope to reach. Fifth, heavies have 3-8x as much HP as scouts, and a weapon with over twice the DPS of the shotgun and 6-7 times the range. Sixth, not all scouts are caldari and gallente. Somewhere on a mystical island exists a unicorn known as the minmitar scout, and a fairy princess called the amarr scout. These are both in need of love. Seventh, calling someone an idiot invalidates all of your previous points, as it shows that you are unwilling/incapable of holding a rational discussion. Eighth, I would recommend a semi colon; it would make your sentences much more coherent. Proto sg with pro five does 607 shield damage, if you have less than 600 shields take max damage with proficiency and armor takes the guns listed damage.
the proficiency doesn't affect armor damage.
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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