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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2172
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Posted - 2014.06.09 09:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am going to tackle the question specifically in a new video,. But If you have not really fought swarms in a dropship watch this overview video of what it is like from and ADS view and why swarms often fail. It is 17 minutes long but shows some of the issues we face. I will, as I said, make a more detailed and specific responce for CCP and post it here too. That way we can talk about facts, not myth.
Note the "damage mod active" message is a bug. It sometimes sticks to the swarm after you die fighting a tank with a damage mod on, which happend to me in that battle
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2172
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Posted - 2014.06.09 09:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
For those talking about lock on range increases. What is your opinion on this segment of the video - Watch from this point until 2:40. Just a 2 minute segment.
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2173
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Posted - 2014.06.09 12:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is something being overlooked here. The ability to kill a dropship and how that can be done, and how long it takes is one side of the discussion. The other side we must consider is threat level.
How much threat is a dropship. Forget Ambush, it's broken. In Skirmish and Domination does an ADS, which is a full on proto asset pose as much threat as a full on proto infantry player? I have been tracking kills. I posted this data before but I'll mention it here again.
In 36 matches where I did not fly but another pilot on our team did, the other ADS never went higher that 6th on the kill chart, getting at best around 15 kills, averaging 7 kills. In all cases Infantry of similar proto level easily out killed the dropship. Please avoid posting examples from each end of the bell curve, they are not representative.
My point here is to remember to factor in the threat level when deciding on the measure of the response.
CCP perhaps you might take a look at what are considered top pilots. Do a database query of the top 10. Pull all dom and skrimish matches for these players and count the ADS weapon kills per match. Exactly how dangerous are we?
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2174
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
The lock range is fine. As I showed in my links 175m is a long way away, it's a third of the map. As i showed a swarm can easily see, lock and hit me at that range while I can't tell you from a rock unless you start shooting.
Increasing the lock range will put us back at the intolerable 1.6 situation. Swarms can lock down several objectives from the redline and be so far away they can hit a dropship 6 times before they even render.
Changes need to be made. But not to lock range.
Rendering is not fixed. And requires clint changes to be fixed. Did you see these?
Comparison of what we look like to each other at 85 meters.
Example of rendering issue
In that second example you can clearly see a swarmer at 50m pop into existence and fire swarms almost as soon as he does. This means he is getting lock on before I can even see him even when I am 50m away. I can only run in these cases. I am facing the wrong way, fighting an enemy who has a massive head start on me that he gained due to unbalanced rendering. Give that guy 250m lock range and I don't have a chance.
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2174
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:The lock range is fine. but i heard they're talking about making the Assault version have better range but weaker damage it wouldn't affect you much. it'd be like infantry getting shot with a Militia sniper rifle. No one really cares, we just shrug it off.
The render issue still remains. The knock back will throw us off target. So Long range means an invisible player at another objective or the redline plinking away at me for the whole match. That is what happened before the range reduction. Swarms set up on a hill way back on the map, protected by the redlin or a rail tank; sat on a hive and just spent the entire game shooting at you.
If you want to fight me with a lock on weapon, when you are non rendered even at 50m then you should be out in the battle zone taking risks, just like I do.
The difference between swarms and snipers is tracking missiles. No skill at all. Stay way at the back with a auto targeting weapon and just hold fire for the full 15 minutes. This is what happend all the time in old builds. It was a mess.
You can hide from snipers. In the air there is no cover.
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2174
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
a) Anti-Air specialist variant. Increased lock range (300 m), increased lock time (roughly 30% increase), significantly increased effectiveness against DS and less against ground vehicles and turrets.
This would not work. 300m is half the map. More on most. That is the return of redline swarms. It was a disaster before, and would be again. Remember swarms track. No player should have a weapon that tracks its target and can fire that weapon at the objectives from the redline.
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2181
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
We seem to be limiting our thoughts to too small an area. Vehicle balance has a major problem. One that might not even be surmountable. The variables we have to tweak are limited. Perhaps too limited to actualy reach a suitable balance without client updates that are not coming.
Perhaps there are other ways to adjust swarms outside of speed, range and damage. I am just throwing stuff out here, these are not well thought out or even practical, there purpose is to inspire lateral thinking (trying to work within the no client update restriction):
1) Special swarms that also do damage to the pilot
2) Missiles that do more damage the slower a dropship is going. Say double damage it it is hovering, half damage when it is at full speed. Then you could remove the afterburner completely
3) Low damage but high impact physics swarms
4) Change the after burner to not change speed but make its heat throw swarms off so they miss (increase cool down too)
5) Link damage to altitude and remove the afterburner. Low altitude = high damage.
6) Remove the afterburner but increase dropship HP
7) increase swarm damage if a dropship has its afterburner active.
Theres are just ideas to get you considering other options.
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2187
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Posted - 2014.06.10 19:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Logibro. I agree that is the place to start. Fix that. Then we can move on.
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Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2197
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Posted - 2014.06.11 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Too far Logibro, way way too far. And if you want to use my hard earned is to see if we start "dropping for the skies", then how about, until you actually have real data you make them cost 70k, so I dont lose all my money while you see how it goes?
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2199
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Posted - 2014.06.11 19:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
A few things. Ill chart it up tonight. Post tomorrow when I have the numbers. But in a nutshell these changes are based of the numbers, like damage and efficiency. They do not account for how the battle actually is.
Hers iis just one example - impulse. Swarms knock us all over the place. Each missile hits 1 after the other and we cannot aim at the target. We can only shoot between volleys, and by adding more missiles we will likely have a tiny window to fight back.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2202
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Posted - 2014.06.11 19:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:A few things. Ill chart it up tonight. Post tomorrow when I have the numbers. But in a nutshell these changes are based of the numbers, like damage and efficiency. They do not account for how the battle actually is.
Hers iis just one example - impulse. Swarms knock us all over the place. Each missile hits 1 after the other and we cannot aim at the target. We can only shoot between volleys, and by adding more missiles we will likely have a tiny window to fight back.
No, were going to have to run after we see the first volley of militia swarms knowing the second one is already locked and loaded, also knowing that the first volley is either going to push us into a wall, the ground. The least it can do is take away 1/3 of our shields and there is no way to avoid it.
Exactly. You think we we just AB away now, Soon As i see that first shot I will run. Not fight. YOu will get less battles between swarms and dropships. Swarmers may find they get less kills and more frustrating fights.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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