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pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 877	Posted - 2014.06.08 13:22:00 - [1] - Quote Hey everyone, first of all I'm italian so my english isn't perfect. In this thread I'd like to show to CCP and to everyone that the minscout is just a little bit UP and could use some love in Hotfix Beta/Bravo. I'm not crying for a buff I want to explain you what I think and see if you agree. I will also try to suggest some possible changes. First of all: Bonuses 1 +5% to hack speed 2 +5% to Nova Knives damage Looking at the second bonus it looks like you should use knives being a minscout Now, what do you need to be a knifer? I think that any scout will agree with me when I say that you need to be invisible and fast. INVISIBLE Even if cloak is helpful the first thing you need is to be invisible to scanners. That is what I'll talk about. The greatest problem here is the Caldari Scout. Let's take a look at the numbers. Caldari scout precision Minmatar scout profile 0 enhancer=27 db 0 dampener= 31.5 db 1 enh=21.6 db 1 damp= 23.63 db 2 enh= 17.85 db 2 damp= 18.49 db 3 enh= 15.81 db 3 damp= 15.85 db What we see here is that when you are not cloaked (and you need an adv or proto cloak to change something) is that if you have 1 dampener for every enhancer the caldari has he will always see you. And also that if he is using 3 enhancer you will not be able to be invisible, ever. Obviously this is probably not a big problem in publics but in PC I will always have a caldariscanner scout, your minknifer scout is completely useless!! If you wanto to see the numbers of other scouts: 0enh= 36, 1enh=28.8, 2enh=23.79, 3enh=21.08 The problem is only with the caldari scout because with 2 dampener you are sure none is going to (passive) scan you. My suggestion is: Change the passive of the caldari scout to be 3% or 4% per level. With 3%/lvl With 4%/lvl 1enh= 24.48db 1enh=23.04db 2enh=20.22 2enh=20.22db 3enh=18.1db 3enh=17.54db The only difference between 3% and 4% is that with 1 enh against 1 dampener the 4% "wins". But in both cases if you have x dampener and he has x enhancer the dampened scout stays invisible (with x>1 for 4%) I think that this would make the gallente scout even stronger then it is now. maybe you should take a look at those numbers too, but I don't want to make this even longer. I said that you need to be invisible and FAST. to be fast you need 1 or better 2 kincats. Let's build a minscout with 2 kincats. 2 kincats= PG 30 1 profile dampener= PG 0 1 adv cloak = PG 12 1 adv combat rifle= PG 3 1 proto NK= PG 8 2 cmplx shield extender= PG 22 And the third shield ext....Wait!!! I'm out of PG!!! I'm "shield and speed tanking" (shield should be CPU hungry), I have a module with 0 PG, 11 PG for both the weapons (1 is only adv) 2 cmplx shield and an adv one, an adv cloak, NO NADES, NO SECONDARY EQUIPMENT And I have 81/81 PG! With 120 CPU left... Now...I think the main problem is in the PG of shield extenders and kincats, they are too PG hungry. Changing them would change everything? Give minscout more PG. But it really, really needs more PG to be able to create fittings like other scouts can do. I just have two things left: 1 Things should be balanced for PC too, not only for public. The minscout could look great in public, but it is not balanced with other scouts in PC. 2 These are my opinions, I tried to exlapin what I think, let me know what you think. Minmatar loyalist!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1505	Posted - 2014.06.08 14:24:00 - [2] - Quote Agreed * Help MinScouts beat scans * Buff MinScout PG/CPU output Disagreed * Nerf CalScout Precision 1. A nerf to CalScout precision is a direct buff to GalScout build versatility. 2. Further nerfs to Scout ewar capabilities will only serve to encourage HP tanking. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.06.08 14:53:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Agreed * Help MinScouts beat scans * Buff MinScout PG/CPU output Disagreed * Nerf CalScout Precision 1. A nerf to CalScout precision is a direct buff to GalScout build versatility. 2. Further nerfs to Scout ewar capabilities will only serve to encourage HP tanking. ^This (thanks for saving me time on a write up) Post Alpha I advocate adding polish but slight buffs to the under performing classes/gear as much as possible. Where not possible evaluation of nerfs will of course be required but that should, in my view, happen only after the other aspects are given some love to bring them closer to the curve and after each patch/hotfix has had time to be evaluated and tested for a few weeks on the live servers. That's my read on things at this time. Cheers, Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 882	Posted - 2014.06.08 18:52:00 - [4] - Quote The problem is: how can you help the minscout to be invisible without changing caldari's bonus? You should lower Min profile (making different to other scouts) or give minmatars a third bonus, to profile dampening... I don't see other possibilities for the minmatar, I think we should change both caldari and Gallente, obviously trying to push players to not bricktank and instead to use ewar. I will try to do some math, to balance all these scanners and profiles. Minmatar loyalist!
pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 882	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:57:00 - [5] - Quote I have studied the numbers of caldari and gallente scouts to balance the change I proposed to caldari scan precision. In 1.8 we had this: Gallente profile.........................caldari precision 0damp=23.72db.......................0enh=27 db 1damp=17.715db.....................1enh=21.6db 2damp=13.86db.......................2enh=17.85db 3damp=12.13db.......................3enh=15.81db So a caldari scout with 1 enhancer could see a gallente with 0 dampeners and a caldari with 3 enhancer could see a gallente with 1 dampener. A gallente with 2 or more dampeners was completely invisible. After hotfix Alpha with the changes to gallente's passive we have this Gallente profile 0damp=26.775 1damp=20.081 2damp=15.71 Now a caldari with 1 enhancer can see a no dampened gallente, a caldari with 2 enhancers can see a gallente with 1 dampener and a caldari with 4 enhancers can see a gallente with 2 dampeners. Now I asked to decrease the bonus to precision to caldari, if we want to keep things balanced we have to change the gallente too. After some math I have found that if we want to go back to 1.8's balance we should give a bonus to caldari precision of 3%per level and a bonus to gallente profile of 3% per level. If we want to keep hotfix alpha balance we should give to caldari a bonus to precision of 4% per level, and give to gallente a bonus of 2% per level to profile. The only thing that would change to what we have now in this case is that a 2 dampened gallente would be' invisible even for a 4 enhanced scout. I find both these quite balanced cause a scanner should never be' able to see everyone. Let me know what you think. Minmatar loyalist!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1524	Posted - 2014.06.08 22:27:00 - [6] - Quote The conversation has moved here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164449 Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 882	Posted - 2014.06.08 23:25:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The conversation has moved here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164449 These are good suggestions even if I dont know if CCP wants to remove dampening to gallentes. Also: the point about minscouts needing more PG still stands so I still hope CCP will take a look at this thread. Maybe I ll try to make some examples and try to understand, suggest and show now much PG they should add. Minmatar loyalist!
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 999	Posted - 2014.06.09 00:52:00 - [8] - Quote PG buff... knife needs to stay, hacking needs to stay.. caldari scouts are fine- they give up slots to scan- you should give up slots to be unscannable. Also note- complex precison is 20% scan precision while enhanced dampener is 20% dampening. Also dampening is already more powerful from the start. 35DB scan profile.. 40DB scan precision.
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 4	Posted - 2014.06.09 01:04:00 - [9] - Quote maybe a small speed buff (+0.5 m per second) and an even smaller profile buff a mimatar suits speed is its greatest asset however it cannot last in a fight so the profile buff i like maybe 3% reduction per level or just 5-7 dbs no hp buff though mimitar all a cross the board as you should know has the lowest hp of any faction they are however fast a mimitar scout is NOT a fighter its more of a quick and dirty you don't see me type of play-style
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 4	Posted - 2014.06.09 01:06:00 - [10] - Quote or a low slot one low slot would be nice

pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 886	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:05:00 - [11] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: PG buff... knife needs to stay, hacking needs to stay.. caldari scouts are fine- they give up slots to scan- you should give up slots to be unscannable. Also note- complex precison is 20% scan precision while enhanced dampener is 20% dampening. Also dampening is already more powerful from the start. 35DB scan profile.. 40DB scan precision. No caldari are not fine, sa you can see (Numbers in OP) even if the minscout gives up a dampener for every enhancer the caldari has he will still be' visible for the caldari. That means caldari>minmatar. And also and more important:if the caldari has 3 enhancer the minmatar has no possibilities to be' invisible. A not invisible scout is a dead scout, invisibility should also win against scanners (for scouts) Minmatar loyalist!
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1000	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:39:00 - [12] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: PG buff... knife needs to stay, hacking needs to stay.. caldari scouts are fine- they give up slots to scan- you should give up slots to be unscannable. Also note- complex precison is 20% scan precision while enhanced dampener is 20% dampening. Also dampening is already more powerful from the start. 35DB scan profile.. 40DB scan precision. No caldari are not fine, sa you can see (Numbers in OP) even if the minscout gives up a dampener for every enhancer the caldari has he will still be' visible for the caldari. That means caldari>minmatar. And also and more important:if the caldari has 3 enhancer the minmatar has no possibilities to be' invisible. A not invisible scout is a dead scout, invisibility should also win against scanners (for scouts) A scout made for scanning vs a scout not made for dampening. That's your problem bro...
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 447	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:51:00 - [13] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: pagl1u M wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: PG buff... knife needs to stay, hacking needs to stay.. caldari scouts are fine- they give up slots to scan- you should give up slots to be unscannable. Also note- complex precison is 20% scan precision while enhanced dampener is 20% dampening. Also dampening is already more powerful from the start. 35DB scan profile.. 40DB scan precision. No caldari are not fine, sa you can see (Numbers in OP) even if the minscout gives up a dampener for every enhancer the caldari has he will still be' visible for the caldari. That means caldari>minmatar. And also and more important:if the caldari has 3 enhancer the minmatar has no possibilities to be' invisible. A not invisible scout is a dead scout, invisibility should also win against scanners (for scouts) A scout made for scanning vs a scout not made for dampening. That's your problem bro... = Min and Ammar Scout useless ? No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 894	Posted - 2014.06.09 20:32:00 - [14] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: = Min and Ammar Scout useless ? Exactly. I think minmatar is even more useless because he really needs to be invisible. How am I suppose to knife someone if just having a CalScout in their team is enough to see me from 70+ metres, no Matter how many dampeners I stack. Minmatar loyalist!
pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 898	Posted - 2014.06.11 09:25:00 - [15] - Quote Bump, hoping CCP will take a look Minmatar loyalist!


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