DUST Search - NPE can be fixed, at least a little, with ISK

DJINN Jecture wrote:

Indeed. The problem isn't just with running in cheap gear and getting to the top, the problem is also that at the top often you have to spend excessive amounts to just get there. There have been many times where I have just made an alt in BA just to be able to afford to buy a skill book for my main (although my corp likes to help) and just grind some easy isk in the BA, biomassing when I get out of the BA. I can make easily 10 million isk in a short period of time (usually one battle per alt till I make it out of BA) and transfer that to my main where it accumulates so I can have shiny things on the battlefield and it goes quick, regardless of my position on the roster (never did have a hard time getting to 1-5 as a Logi or a scout).

While the BA works for grinding free isk, the preferable method of grinding for me was using BPO suits with cheapish mods to eek out a fortune. The task itself though is near impossible now though, even at 30k isk average for a cheap suit, the relative HP for a cheap suit and lack of other options available on it mean that you die more and costs a similar amount to what your expensive suit cost would run. Net effect for a veteran player is negative isk.

EDIT: Having the ability to sell equipment and suits to other players would mitigate this problem and allow us to play and use what we want to that gets the best results.


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Glyd Path Nec Tributis 77	Posted - 2014.05.28 01:12:00 - [1] - Quote I recommend reverting to the older isk payout method. Or simply increasing the payout for lower level finishing positions. My reasoning follows: The game used to have much better payout for isk. Since the new year the amounts paid out for kill board position below ~5 place have dropped dramatically. The effect on the game overall is negative and it is worse for the new player experience as new berries have more trouble making money. More cash is rewarded for destruction of equipment (tanks, etc) and infrastructure (turrets) than just killing reds. Which is fine. However, losing money for almost every match just makes it difficult, if not impossible, to buy skill books. Isk cannot be purchased, it is only rewarded in battle. While there might have been a good reason to limit isk payout the reality is the game is dying and the original reasons are invalid today. I believe the reason was the large amounts of isk in game (which was the fault of CCP mishandling of rewards and PC) was the reason to lower the amounts. However, the problem isn't those with millions of isk on hand (my total is in the tens of millions - no I will not share it) but those with well under a million. A multi million isk skill book means it is impossible to skill into a higher skill because it is nearly impossible to gather the funds. Aurum is available to those that don't have the time or the skill to move forward quickly. However there is no other way to acquire isk beyond game play. This is forcing new players to grind cheaply, to eek out a profit and to play conservatively when the game is much more entertaining doing exactly the opposite. If you really want the game to be enjoyed versus endured increase the rewards to lower finishing positions. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 90	Posted - 2014.05.29 00:39:00 - [2] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Indeed. The problem isn't just with running in cheap gear and getting to the top, the problem is also that at the top often you have to spend excessive amounts to just get there. There have been many times where I have just made an alt in BA just to be able to afford to buy a skill book for my main (although my corp likes to help) and just grind some easy isk in the BA, biomassing when I get out of the BA. I can make easily 10 million isk in a short period of time (usually one battle per alt till I make it out of BA) and transfer that to my main where it accumulates so I can have shiny things on the battlefield and it goes quick, regardless of my position on the roster (never did have a hard time getting to 1-5 as a Logi or a scout). While the BA works for grinding free isk, the preferable method of grinding for me was using BPO suits with cheapish mods to eek out a fortune. The task itself though is near impossible now though, even at 30k isk average for a cheap suit, the relative HP for a cheap suit and lack of other options available on it mean that you die more and costs a similar amount to what your expensive suit cost would run. Net effect for a veteran player is negative isk. EDIT: Having the ability to sell equipment and suits to other players would mitigate this problem and allow us to play and use what we want to that gets the best results. I have some friends that did that as well. Some would just create an alt, transfer funds and biomass. I didn't agree with the method although I tried it once. Way too much work versus running a free sniper fit and playing the boring but guaranteed to make a profit solution. I started this character later and she has no BPOs. Although the suits having specific racial requirements means that you have to burn down yet more SP to use it negates some of its usefulness. Yes, selling salvage or unusable gear would mitigate the problem a little. The new player experience still needs the isk adjusted regardless of the player market, which probably isn't going to happen without a client side change. The grind has to be reduced or new players will not enjoy the game. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 92	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:15:00 - [3] - Quote Cyrus Militani wrote: What is the point in skill books? Can we just remove them? I mean you already spent the time gaining SP. What is the point in charging ISK on top of SP? That would lower the barrier. While I agree with your point charging too much isk and sp seems ingrained in the ccp way of thinking. Unfortunately for us in dust we need active sp as well as passive. In eve online my understanding is that sp is only passive. Grinding is just generating isk and it comes at a distinctly less risk than it does in dust. The entire modeling dust sp and skills after eve was a failure. But then, so was dust to hear ccp talk about it. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 93	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:34:00 - [4] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: I'll also reiterate that your post misses OP's point entirely in that his argument is highlighting specific issues any player able to field PRO fits has long surpassed. Neither is your situation subject of OP's argument nor do I think that he'd agree with what you're saying. Well said, thanks. The prototype stompers were never my concern. They are way past the new player experience and need no help from me. New players are not enjoying themselves and my suggestion was to return the isk payout to a more balanced solution. I used to be able to make a profit running a mix of gear. I only used prototype when it was necessary to counter prototype opponents. Assault dropships required ishokuni assault forge guns, expensive but effective (btw, I am fine with that). Dust has fallen into the most common free to play trap. The failure mode is teaching your players to pay you as little as possible, in case you weren't up on the literature of game development. They have forced many of there customers (you know, those that pay for aurum and boosters) to run the absolute cheapest gear they can. Instead of inspiring players to buy boosters they have trained them to spend as little as possible. And that success in dust can only be gained through mind numbing grinding. Which is not actually true. Success in dust comes from enjoying yourself, for me that means with friends in squads with mics. Having a good time, attempting new things, trying new weapons and the skills to make them more effective was what dust used to be about. While having an actual matchmaking system would help I expect we will never see it. But to have somebody to play with and against we need new players to enjoy the game. Having to grind from the beginning is not the way to accomplish that. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.