DUST Search - [Discussion] The Big Scout Role Bonus Thread

CHANCEtheChAn wrote:

These aren't stupid

Its actually reasonable in every way and probably should have been the way the bonuses were released so Amarr and winmitar didn't get the shaft

The only things ide change are:

Gallente scout- Since odds are CCP is taking away the armor repping of Gal and putting it on Amarr, And because people would rather carry rep hives on their gal scout than fill their lows with reppers, I would change the Armor repair module efficiency.I was thinking maybe 1 h/p sec passive armor regen per level for the Gal assault, but feel it would be too much for the scout (we don't want to Nerf or buff it too much). STILL thinking of a new bonus, damp is good at 15%.

Winmitar scout-I would take off the base melee bonus because a scout having 3 bonuses when the rest have 2, and it not being viable competitively but rather a quirck is weird. The 1% sprint speed is geniuous as the Minmatar are super squishy and rely on their speed to be effective. Further speed boost would now make them viable for PC again( as a run between objectives and setup links and such suit), and also make for some pretty funny pub matches. The hacking bonus arguably should be pushed to 10% hacking speed per level. (If you throw 4 complex codebreakers on a logi suit, assault suit or another scout suit, they are only slightly worse at hacking than the Minmatar scout with 3 codebreakers. The Minmatar should outshine EVERYONE in their class at hacking things and because other suits have 4 low slots while this has 3. A MAJOR hacking bonus is needed.

Amarr scout-Because the amarr scout is so much less dominant than the Gallente scout, but with the same slot load out and better ehp, I believe the Amarr scout should now become the tank scout to be viable in PC. Let's be honest, if anyone wants to scan something, they are gonna use the Cal scout, not the Amarr. CCP is trying to give 3 armor rep HP/s to Amarr because they want it to be the tank scout. Personally I would rather a 5% efficacy to armor plate modules per level on the Amarr scout than a range increase. This would mean more tanking on it but with its already slow nature it'll be like riding around in a commando suit but with scout stamina. The MAIN complaint I hear from Amarr scout users is that Gallente can tank better than they can. This would fix that problem. But would also allow Complex ferroscale and repair armor (can't believe I forgot the name) to become viable as basic armor plates. Amarr isn't E-war now, nor do I think it ever needs to be E-war unless you fit it that way. Yeah, you might have a 1100-1200 HP scout running around, but hell be useless with no jumping or running like a heavy. Expect a kin Kat/2 complex plate/(etc.) Fit to be the norm.

Cal scout- I think the shield recharge rate needs to be dropped as the shield Regan for Cal scouts is a boisterous 50hp/s as is, and your bonus is a slayer type bonus, more fitted for the assault suit, and we want to move people from using scouts as slayers, and back into medium frames. Not vice-versa. Because a scouts scan range is so long already, I can't justify keeping the 5% scan range per level it already has. Thus I propose maybe a 50-100% efficacy of cloaking dempener per level. Thus, with the new cloak dampening percentages 0-2.5-5 This would allow Cal scouts to use a adv cloak at between 8.75-12.5% dampening and proto cloak at 17.5-30% dampening. This is because, as a cal scout, the reason we use a cloak is 25% to be slightly invisible and 75% we want to have a damp on but cannot fit it because we use our two lows for E war or 1 kinkat and 1 Armor plate. Thus ifwe want a dampener by using the cloak, we have to use up precious pg/cCPU to fit a proto cloak, and lessen some of our other proto modules/weapons in return. The cal scout is known to be the "hunter" scout because of its ability to slay/cloak and then regen, thus it is fitting for cal scout to be the one to get a cloak bonus. And because of the lack of lows to tank, worse case scenario you are looking at a slow, 700hp scout with a damp on and ****** modules. Scan precision is A okay.

What do you think Ghost?

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Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 4915	Posted - 2014.05.26 15:40:00 - [1] - Quote The Amarr scout should have this! The Gal scout needs this! Blah Blah Blah, these get bantered and argued all across the forums. Let's put these all in a single thread, and discuss how we think the bonuses for scouts should go. For Example: Here is my take on how the bonuses should work. Gal Scout: 5% Bonus to Armor Repair Module Efficacy, 3% Bonus to Base Profile Dampening Min Scout: 5% Bonus to Hacking Speed, 1% Bonus to Base Sprint Speed and 5% Bonus to Base Melee Amarr Scout: 5% Bonus to Scan Range, 5% Bonus to Stamina and Stamina Recovery Cal Scout: 5% Bonus to Scan Precision, 3% Bonus to Shield Recharge Rate My Reasoning for the Above: Gal Scouts: Gal Scouts are regen tankers and CQC fighters. These bonuses lets them operate behind enemy lines for long periods of time, being able to avoid scans and repair themselves in between fights. Min Maxed, this lets them rep at some insane rates, but you also have to remember, they sacrifice their buffer for it. They still have to run 2 damps to avoid scans, so if they want even a single rep, they have only 1 low slot left. They can run more rep or a ferroscale (if they are smart). Min Scouts: Hack Speed is a given, it's invaluable to the Min Scout. I dumped the Knife bonus, because I believe that the Knives should be deadly for everyone. They really need to buff the damage by all of them as a skill bonus. 5% damage and charge speed per level. In return, they become biotic warriors. Increase in Base Sprint speed makes them sprint at 8.7 Base. With a Kincat, this pushes them to 9.8 m/s. Fast Indeed. Base melee buff gives them 150 base melee. With 2x Complex Mybofybrils, this pushes them to 360 melee, which is one powerful punch. This is a great finisher or starter for fights, allowing them to rapidly traverse the battlefield and eliminate lone, wounded targets. I don't feel that this is too powerful, as the scout must sacrifice eHP to run the melee, and you only have three lows. 2 damps are needed to stay unscanned by a vast majority of scans, and that only leaves a single low left. This leaves them some versatility. Since the bonuses are to the BASE stats, all scouts benefit from it without modules, but the modules are percentage based, so to take advantage of it to it's fullest potential, you need to use modules. Amarr Scout: Bonus to Stamina is a given, as that is the amarr way. The bonus to Scan range really plays into how the scout is supposed to work. It works in tangent with assault squads as a support class in a sense. It scans other med frames and is tough enough to survive on the front lines. It's the Yin to the Cal Scout Yang. One is made to be fragile and scan scout suits, the other is tough and made to scan Med Frames. This gives them a much needed role in PC, as they will be able to support their troops in a positive way. Cal Scout: Scan precision is a given. Gotta scan 'em all! Recharge was an idea on my part to really make their shields shine. They are the epitome of regen. With a damp and regulator, you will dodge most med frames. The second damp isn't needed, as you scan practically anyone who gets within 40m. So you run a regulator. This means you regen shields in about 2-3 seconds even when shields are broken. The buff to recharge then really shines. It makes your base recharge go up to ~60hp/s. Min Maxed, you can run a scout with 2x Precision, 1x Shield and 1x Recharge to make a scout with low eHP, but excellent eWAR and regen capabilites (85hp/s if you are wondering) If you wanna sacrifice some scan, you can make him a bit tougher and make him a potent long distance flanker. With 300 shields and fantastic regen. Long Range hit and run at it's finest. Anyways, these are just some ideas to get discussion started. Post your own ideas or tell me why mine are stupid! Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 358	Posted - 2014.05.26 17:27:00 - [2] - Quote These aren't stupid Its actually reasonable in every way and probably should have been the way the bonuses were released so Amarr and winmitar didn't get the shaft The only things ide change are: Gallente scout- Since odds are CCP is taking away the armor repping of Gal and putting it on Amarr, And because people would rather carry rep hives on their gal scout than fill their lows with reppers, I would change the Armor repair module efficiency.I was thinking maybe 1 h/p sec passive armor regen per level for the Gal assault, but feel it would be too much for the scout (we don't want to Nerf or buff it too much). STILL thinking of a new bonus, damp is good at 15%. Winmitar scout-I would take off the base melee bonus because a scout having 3 bonuses when the rest have 2, and it not being viable competitively but rather a quirck is weird. The 1% sprint speed is geniuous as the Minmatar are super squishy and rely on their speed to be effective. Further speed boost would now make them viable for PC again( as a run between objectives and setup links and such suit), and also make for some pretty funny pub matches. The hacking bonus arguably should be pushed to 10% hacking speed per level. (If you throw 4 complex codebreakers on a logi suit, assault suit or another scout suit, they are only slightly worse at hacking than the Minmatar scout with 3 codebreakers. The Minmatar should outshine EVERYONE in their class at hacking things and because other suits have 4 low slots while this has 3. A MAJOR hacking bonus is needed. Amarr scout-Because the amarr scout is so much less dominant than the Gallente scout, but with the same slot load out and better ehp, I believe the Amarr scout should now become the tank scout to be viable in PC. Let's be honest, if anyone wants to scan something, they are gonna use the Cal scout, not the Amarr. CCP is trying to give 3 armor rep HP/s to Amarr because they want it to be the tank scout. Personally I would rather a 5% efficacy to armor plate modules per level on the Amarr scout than a range increase. This would mean more tanking on it but with its already slow nature it'll be like riding around in a commando suit but with scout stamina. The MAIN complaint I hear from Amarr scout users is that Gallente can tank better than they can. This would fix that problem. But would also allow Complex ferroscale and repair armor (can't believe I forgot the name) to become viable as basic armor plates. Amarr isn't E-war now, nor do I think it ever needs to be E-war unless you fit it that way. Yeah, you might have a 1100-1200 HP scout running around, but hell be useless with no jumping or running like a heavy. Expect a kin Kat/2 complex plate/(etc.) Fit to be the norm. Cal scout- I think the shield recharge rate needs to be dropped as the shield Regan for Cal scouts is a boisterous 50hp/s as is, and your bonus is a slayer type bonus, more fitted for the assault suit, and we want to move people from using scouts as slayers, and back into medium frames. Not vice-versa. Because a scouts scan range is so long already, I can't justify keeping the 5% scan range per level it already has. Thus I propose maybe a 50-100% efficacy of cloaking dempener per level. Thus, with the new cloak dampening percentages 0-2.5-5 This would allow Cal scouts to use a adv cloak at between 8.75-12.5% dampening and proto cloak at 17.5-30% dampening. This is because, as a cal scout, the reason we use a cloak is 25% to be slightly invisible and 75% we want to have a damp on but cannot fit it because we use our two lows for E war or 1 kinkat and 1 Armor plate. Thus ifwe want a dampener by using the cloak, we have to use up precious pg/cCPU to fit a proto cloak, and lessen some of our other proto modules/weapons in return. The cal scout is known to be the "hunter" scout because of its ability to slay/cloak and then regen, thus it is fitting for cal scout to be the one to get a cloak bonus. And because of the lack of lows to tank, worse case scenario you are looking at a slow, 700hp scout with a damp on and ****** modules. Scan precision is A okay. What do you think Ghost? Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 4925	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:48:00 - [3] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: These aren't stupid Its actually reasonable in every way and probably should have been the way the bonuses were released so Amarr and winmitar didn't get the shaft The only things ide change are: Gallente scout- Since odds are CCP is taking away the armor repping of Gal and putting it on Amarr, And because people would rather carry rep hives on their gal scout than fill their lows with reppers, I would change the Armor repair module efficiency.I was thinking maybe 1 h/p sec passive armor regen per level for the Gal assault, but feel it would be too much for the scout (we don't want to Nerf or buff it too much). STILL thinking of a new bonus, damp is good at 15%. Winmitar scout-I would take off the base melee bonus because a scout having 3 bonuses when the rest have 2, and it not being viable competitively but rather a quirck is weird. The 1% sprint speed is geniuous as the Minmatar are super squishy and rely on their speed to be effective. Further speed boost would now make them viable for PC again( as a run between objectives and setup links and such suit), and also make for some pretty funny pub matches. The hacking bonus arguably should be pushed to 10% hacking speed per level. (If you throw 4 complex codebreakers on a logi suit, assault suit or another scout suit, they are only slightly worse at hacking than the Minmatar scout with 3 codebreakers. The Minmatar should outshine EVERYONE in their class at hacking things and because other suits have 4 low slots while this has 3. A MAJOR hacking bonus is needed. Amarr scout-Because the amarr scout is so much less dominant than the Gallente scout, but with the same slot load out and better ehp, I believe the Amarr scout should now become the tank scout to be viable in PC. Let's be honest, if anyone wants to scan something, they are gonna use the Cal scout, not the Amarr. CCP is trying to give 3 armor rep HP/s to Amarr because they want it to be the tank scout. Personally I would rather a 5% efficacy to armor plate modules per level on the Amarr scout than a range increase. This would mean more tanking on it but with its already slow nature it'll be like riding around in a commando suit but with scout stamina. The MAIN complaint I hear from Amarr scout users is that Gallente can tank better than they can. This would fix that problem. But would also allow Complex ferroscale and repair armor (can't believe I forgot the name) to become viable as basic armor plates. Amarr isn't E-war now, nor do I think it ever needs to be E-war unless you fit it that way. Yeah, you might have a 1100-1200 HP scout running around, but hell be useless with no jumping or running like a heavy. Expect a kin Kat/2 complex plate/(etc.) Fit to be the norm. Cal scout- I think the shield recharge rate needs to be dropped as the shield Regan for Cal scouts is a boisterous 50hp/s as is, and your bonus is a slayer type bonus, more fitted for the assault suit, and we want to move people from using scouts as slayers, and back into medium frames. Not vice-versa. Because a scouts scan range is so long already, I can't justify keeping the 5% scan range per level it already has. Thus I propose maybe a 50-100% efficacy of cloaking dempener per level. Thus, with the new cloak dampening percentages 0-2.5-5 This would allow Cal scouts to use a adv cloak at between 8.75-12.5% dampening and proto cloak at 17.5-30% dampening. This is because, as a cal scout, the reason we use a cloak is 25% to be slightly invisible and 75% we want to have a damp on but cannot fit it because we use our two lows for E war or 1 kinkat and 1 Armor plate. Thus ifwe want a dampener by using the cloak, we have to use up precious pg/cCPU to fit a proto cloak, and lessen some of our other proto modules/weapons in return. The cal scout is known to be the "hunter" scout because of its ability to slay/cloak and then regen, thus it is fitting for cal scout to be the one to get a cloak bonus. And because of the lack of lows to tank, worse case scenario you are looking at a slow, 700hp scout with a damp on and ****** modules. Scan precision is A okay. What do you think Ghost? I find that encouraging trolls has the opposite effect on threads, so I always throw that in. I'm about to leave to have dinner, but I'll read this thoroughly later. EDIT: Quick skim for quick answers. Min is already probably going to get a buff to base hack in hotfix. Possibly buffed to 1.25 instead of 1.1. This, combined with the skill is perfect for hacking. I'll provide a link to the thread later. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10299	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:55:00 - [4] - Quote I can straight up agree with that Ghost. Markdown:
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2646	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:11:00 - [5] - Quote Something I'd like to see changed is the Sprint modifier for Scouts. All suits have a sprint speed multiplier or 1.4 But the speeds between suits just isn't enough. I think that the sprint speed should make the difference. 1.7 for scouts, 1.4 for medium, 1.2 for heavies. That way the Minmatar Commando can be just as fast while walking as an Amarr Assault or a Minmatar Assault can be as fast as an Amarr Scout for movement speed but they'll keep their difference between the Frames. Even with the changes proposed in hotfix alpha Armor Repair really doesn't look like something I'd ever put on a Scout suit. As Chance said, it's more likely to carry rep-hives and lose a low slot to reps. So something different needs to be there. For the dampening, take away the base bonus and put it to 3% effacicy to Profile Dampeners per level Ghost, you are one of a very few people in this game that likes melee. I would really hate my Minmatar suit if the bonus was to melee. I like them to knives. I know you think knives should be good for everyone, and that's in line with it being the old melee for scouts to begin withBonus should be to Codebreakers instead of hacking. While an overall change needs to happen on base hack speed. Currently Commando, Sentinels, and Assaults have a 1.0 modifier to hacking. GA/CA/AM Scouts have a hacking bonus of 5%. Minmatar Scouts have a bonus of 10%. GA/CA/AM Logistics have a bonus of 15% and Minmatar Logistics have a bonus of 20%. Scouts and Logistics need to trade that bonus. While base regen based on size of a frame seemed like a good idea a long time ago, I think that stopped being so with the changes in Uprising 1.0. High Regen makes the suits better than Assaults at front-line fighting. While the caldari bonus to precison enhancers should be the same precentage as the Gallente to dampeners. 5% to Cal, 3% to Gal keep the nice ratio between modules needed to a good balance. The table for those numbers exist in my 1.8 scan table posts on page 5. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3274	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:21:00 - [6] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Something I'd like to see changed is the Sprint modifier for Scouts. All suits have a sprint speed multiplier or 1.4 But the speeds between suits just isn't enough. I think that the sprint speed should make the difference. 1.7 for scouts, 1.4 for medium, 1.2 for heavies. That way the Minmatar Commando can be just as fast while walking as an Amarr Assault or a Minmatar Assault can be as fast as an Amarr Scout for movement speed but they'll keep their difference between the Frames. This is a great idea. Especially in addressing the speed issue with Amarr and Min suits across frame types. How far does this push scouts to the "speed threshold" though? KRRROOOOOOM
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2649	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:30:00 - [7] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Something I'd like to see changed is the Sprint modifier for Scouts. All suits have a sprint speed multiplier or 1.4 But the speeds between suits just isn't enough. I think that the sprint speed should make the difference. 1.7 for scouts, 1.4 for medium, 1.2 for heavies. That way the Minmatar Commando can be just as fast while walking as an Amarr Assault or a Minmatar Assault can be as fast as an Amarr Scout for movement speed but they'll keep their difference between the Frames. This is a great idea. Especially in addressing the speed issue with Amarr and Min suits across frame types. How far does this push scouts to the "speed threshold" though? Minmatar Scout base: 5.67; Sprint: 10.12 (after biotics skill); 1 complex kincat: 11.395 Gal/Cal: 5.45; Sprint: 9.72; 1 kincat: 10.94 Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3274	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:33:00 - [8] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Something I'd like to see changed is the Sprint modifier for Scouts. All suits have a sprint speed multiplier or 1.4 But the speeds between suits just isn't enough. I think that the sprint speed should make the difference. 1.7 for scouts, 1.4 for medium, 1.2 for heavies. That way the Minmatar Commando can be just as fast while walking as an Amarr Assault or a Minmatar Assault can be as fast as an Amarr Scout for movement speed but they'll keep their difference between the Frames. This is a great idea. Especially in addressing the speed issue with Amarr and Min suits across frame types. How far does this push scouts to the "speed threshold" though? Minmatar Scout base: 5.67; Sprint: 10.12 (after biotics skill); 1 complex kincat: 11.395 Gal/Cal: 5.45; Sprint: 9.72; 1 kincat: 10.94 What no Redheaded stepchild KRRROOOOOOM
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2649	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:35:00 - [9] - Quote I forgot the base movement speed for them. can't do it off the top of my head :p Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3274	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:37:00 - [10] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I forgot the base movement speed for them. can't do it off the top of my head :p 5.25 KRRROOOOOOM

THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 846	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:47:00 - [11] - Quote I have to say, even with the range bonus the Amarr scout still won't be used over Gallente by people who don't care about race and just want to use what fits their playstyle. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2649	Posted - 2014.05.26 23:29:00 - [12] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: I forgot the base movement speed for them. can't do it off the top of my head :p 5.25 Sprint of 8.95; Kin Cat of 10.04. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 724	Posted - 2014.05.27 10:54:00 - [13] - Quote There was already an official thread for discussing scouts. Scouts shouldn't get role bonuses to tanking or regeneration, and they already have the best regen stats. Anyway this is what I want them to be like: This is what I would like the scouts to be like: Gal Scout: 3% reduction to scan profile and 2% increased cloak field duration per level. Min Scout: 5% increase in hacking speed and 5% increase to base melee per and knife damage level. Am Scout: 2% increase to scan range and 5% increase to maximum stamina & recovery per level. Cal Scout: 5% reduction to scan precision and 3% increase to scan range per level. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.
Zaria Min Deir Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 707	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:41:00 - [14] - Quote Not going to go into detail about what I like or dislike about all of these, but I do have to say this. I do not agree with the suggestions of racial bonuses that give efficacy to a specific module only. And I definitely think it's a bad idea if only 1 (or 2) of the races gets such a bonus. I think this pigeonholing into using a specific module on a suit to get use out of the suits bonuses is a bad idea, and it's a particularly bad idea to pigeonhole unequally :/ So, in short, module efficacy bonuses for all or none, not just some of the races. And though I'd personally prefer none, I can see a reasonable argument for giving such bonuses to appropriate modules (modules, not the cloak) to all the scouts. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"


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