DUST Search - Why It should matter.

Sigourney Reever wrote:

1st off, lets forget about 'eve pilots in an uproar'. They're supposed to be 'in an uproar if its because MORE features were added to the game.

They're not to be coddled. CCP tells them 'what to do' with every expansion and patch.

It was only when they tried that without adding features to the game that people became upset.

The vision of EVEOnline+(Legion)+Valkyrie is bigger than, or at least it should be.

Let CCP iterate on PI by adding defensive capabilities (Installations, Defense Contracts, Warning alerts, and orbital bombardments) to protect their installations.

As it is, eve players can destroy and recreate everything but their command post at any time, from anywhere in space. Iterating in some mechanics to allow for upgrades and reconfiguring the passive time mechanic as it relates to vulnerability of attack is relatively simple.

Remember, Eve Player's inherent advantage should be Mobility and Scale.
The Macro. They control the cosmos, they can rain brimstone from the sky.

The Merc's advantage vs Eve Players should be Access.
The Micro. Getting into (and out of) tight spaces. (those left open by other inhabitants of New Eden)

Like waking up and realizing your kitchen is full of ants or worse, rats!

They're in the walls and its time to get a Cat, or a Terrier.

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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Sigourney Reever Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 20	Posted - 2014.05.23 07:04:00 - [1] - Quote Hi, I've lurked for a while, came into eve solely for the promise of Dust in '09 or so, I'm kinda appalled that things are where they are at this point. There are many reasons why its not , but thats not why i'm posting. I'm going to use "(Legion)" to describe the game that should have been Dust, and might become Legion from here on: Why aren't there enough reasons for (Legion) to matter in New Eden already on the table? Its the only unique aspect CCP brings. The warbarge, the MCC, the District approach, they simply don't exist in New Eden. They have no impact on anything. Never have and probably never will, Everything (for an initial iteration of (Legion)/Eve gameplay) should revolve around REAL existing things in Eve. From Day1, (Legion) battles should take place Exclusively(!) in and around Eve player's Planetary Interaction Installations. Maps and Sockets should be designed Exclusively(!) around the available planetary interaction installations available to Eve players. Districts should have been depreciated in favor of Installations directly mirroring in-game installations on in-game planets, and NOWHERE ELSE. This would stimulate an Eve player's need for Mercs. This would give a continuity to Sockets, large and small, that are clearly identifiable and explainable to Mercs and Capsuleers alike. PI in Eve dictates fundamental resource collection and refinement (primarily Starbase fuel/components and Repair Nanites) required by Eve players, but most importantly, by nullsec and lowsec inhabitants, and scales risk/reward evenly from highsec out to al levels. Better yet, only one type of planet (Barren) allows for highest level refinement, a perfect starting point thats not too large to bite off, and visually congruent with existing map assets. Don't get me wrong, everyone EXPECTS that all planet types will eventually be attempted for ground forces, Gas Giant mining sockets, Ocean Planet refineries, plasma storage silos. That was the beauty of the Eve PI design, everything would have made sense. Every eve player has placed their 'sockets' in a different configuration, you already developed the progressive generation landscape system (fanfest '11?). It would be epic and matter immediately to all parties concerned. Mercs would have learned the different sockets BECAUSE THEY MATTERED. ("Without the biomass generator, this guy can't make Livestock, without that there's no chance to make Sterile Conduits, I can completely shut down starbase component production in my chosen region, by my chosen enemies) Or is this what happens when the FPS ppl don't talk to the New Eden ppl? Mercs could disrupt (and profit/exploit/destroy/create) Eve players resources and vice versa (it was '11 when Dust blueprints hit the Eve marketplace, at this point for no apparent reason at all, but in an ideal world, My Eve industrialists would have made sure I had at least 'T2' gear... ) ****, I expected (in '09) that by now, 5 yrs in, we'd be well past Ender'sGame type 3d/0g pvp battles and into Merc Teams setting up Outpost defenses while watching eve battles from the outer hull of a (realistically sized 10km+) station, scrambling around like ants setting up traps for the large predators maneuvering in space. Well beyond planets. it's really a shame since biting off just a bit of new eden (the real place, not the constructed parallel universe Dust is) at a time would work. All the Mercs were totally OK with simple bits at first. But your team has never once expressed there was a plan that included New Eden as it exists, everything has been tacked on, and really doesn't matter. I can't begin to speculate why this is the case, but get it together, you have a GREAT base, it's been completely squandered so far as Expanding New Eden is concerned. What happened to the Vision driving the implementation?
Roran Theron Bragian Order Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2014.05.23 09:10:00 - [2] - Quote As an Eve player who's #1 income is PI - if my gold mine became dependent on an FPS game I'd be pissed lol. Are you saying that mercenaries could attack/defend Eve player's PI installations?
Sigourney Reever Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 21	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:01:00 - [3] - Quote Roran Theron wrote: As an Eve player who's #1 income is PI - if my gold mine became dependent on an FPS game I'd be pissed lol. Are you saying that mercenaries could attack/defend Eve player's PI installations? Not only that but it should be the primary means of interaction. Yes, you should be pissed, but your farmville 'gold mine' shouldn't be safe and you should immediately want/need to hire some Mercs to defend your claim. Perhaps you need to hire some robots, but everyone knows robots aren't as good as fully outfitted Mercs.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 504	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:19:00 - [4] - Quote Roran Theron wrote: As an Eve player who's #1 income is PI - if my gold mine became dependent on an FPS game I'd be pissed lol. Are you saying that mercenaries could attack/defend Eve player's PI installations? I also like passive income, but c-¦mon, even miners that only press a few buttons here and there can get blown up, why not our cute PI infra? On the other hand, it would be intersting to have something (npc teams-sectors-some tablet game) that would improve the yeld trough an active/investment instead of a regular yeld with the regualr structures. More risk, more gain, including the defenses and subcontracting mercs =)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3465	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:54:00 - [5] - Quote May I suggest a compromise? The income from PI is balanced around it being passive and risk free. I suggest that CCP should introduce a second form of PI that is higher risk, but has higher income. This PI would be setup in Planetary Districts, and would produce higher yields than traditional PI. However, it has higher risk as well. - The District Owner levies a tax on your production, on top of the tax you already pay to the POCO owner. (If enemy take the District, they may just put up the tax rate to put you out of business.) - Enemy raiders can damage your structures, reducing their efficiency. - Enemy Infantry can take control of your Command Centre and take over your PI setup. Command CentreGÇÖs should have some sort of reinforcement timber so the owner has time to hire Mercs to defend the Command Centre. PI control in Legion should be at the Corp level, while still at the player level in EVE. A Legion Corp should be able to sell a PI setup to an EVE player. The important thing is to have Legion Mercs directly tied into the system from the start. Also: I think you can setup High Level refinement on both Barren and Temperate planets. This does not actually detract in any way from your argument though. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2001	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:57:00 - [6] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: May I suggest a compromise? The income from PI is balanced around it being passive and risk free. I suggest that CCP should introduce a second form of PI that is higher risk, but has higher income. This PI would be setup in Planetary Districts, and would produce higher yields than traditional PI. However, it has higher risk as well. - The District Owner levies a tax on your production, on top of the tax you already pay to the POCO owner. (If enemy take the District, they may just put up the tax rate to put you out of business.) - Enemy raiders can damage your structures, reducing their efficiency. - Enemy Infantry can take control of your Command Centre and take over your PI setup. Command CentreGÇÖs should have some sort of reinforcement timber so the owner has time to hire Mercs to defend the Command Centre. PI control in Legion should be at the Corp level, while still at the player level in EVE. A Legion Corp should be able to sell a PI setup to an EVE player. Also: I think you can setup High Level refinement on both Barren and Temperate planets. This does not actually detract in any way from your argument though. Yes, Barren and Temperate are "Factory Planets" where you can achieve the highest level of refinement Arzadu Akbar Motherfuckers!!!! Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Sigourney Reever Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 26	Posted - 2014.05.23 14:05:00 - [7] - Quote The way I saw it was that each installation (working towards the Command Center from the outer most installations) would be a battlespace, one would have to conquer all installations to make a permanent impact on the Eve Player's production. Fox, I like you're compromise, yes, Legion Corporations would retain but be unable to design, or do more than continue to run, as is, any captured installation. could transfer to an Eve player in corp (in preparation for New Eden Unity, per the single vision planning docs from Fanfest '14) My main point is that IT HAS TO MATTER to eve players, (Legion) forces need to be able to disrupt and interdict CORE industrial materials from eve players. for example: POCOs. Should completely be conquerable by (Legion) forces. We have to be able to ruin their plans as should they be able to ruin ours (primarily i think via some mechanic that restricts our movement from system to system or planet to planet.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3466	Posted - 2014.05.23 14:42:00 - [8] - Quote I agree Sigourney Reever. There has to be tangible benefits and substance to EVE/Legion interaction. Having POCOGÇÖs conquerable is probably less of a problem than having the current PI setups conquerable. Currently PI setups canGÇÖt be attacked, so if that changed there would be massive protests and butt-hurt on EVE side. POCOGÇÖs on the other hand can be blown up and replaced already, so having the option through Legion to take control of a POCO rather than having to pay to build a new one after you blow it up, would be a benefit for EVE pilots and cause less of an uproar. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Sigourney Reever Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 26	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:04:00 - [9] - Quote 1st off, lets forget about 'eve pilots in an uproar'. They're supposed to be 'in an uproar if its because MORE features were added to the game. They're not to be coddled. CCP tells them 'what to do' with every expansion and patch. It was only when they tried that without adding features to the game that people became upset. The vision of EVEOnline+(Legion)+Valkyrie is bigger than, or at least it should be. Let CCP iterate on PI by adding defensive capabilities (Installations, Defense Contracts, Warning alerts, and orbital bombardments) to protect their installations. As it is, eve players can destroy and recreate everything but their command post at any time, from anywhere in space. Iterating in some mechanics to allow for upgrades and reconfiguring the passive time mechanic as it relates to vulnerability of attack is relatively simple. Remember, Eve Player's inherent advantage should be Mobility and Scale. The Macro. They control the cosmos, they can rain brimstone from the sky. The Merc's advantage vs Eve Players should be Access. The Micro. Getting into (and out of) tight spaces. (those left open by other inhabitants of New Eden) Like waking up and realizing your kitchen is full of ants or worse, rats! They're in the walls and its time to get a Cat, or a Terrier.
Sigourney Reever Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 26	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:28:00 - [10] - Quote I want to restate that having the battlespaces in Legion DIRECTLY relate to assets in New Eden is Paramount. All New Eden Inhabitants should be 'looking at' the same thing. Command Center 'sockets' should be designed for each specific planet type, extra credit for each race having different architecture. Perhaps like specific weapons in (Legion), each race might produce specific facilities, again based again on REAL conditions in New Eden. Ex: Gallente and Amarr are likely to excel at Nanite Paste production chains or maybe Minmatar space has more Plasma planets and produces those Command Centers. The specifics shouldn't be important if the vision is adhered to. (Legion) players should have the tools to learn about the who, what, where and why of New Eden mechanics as they relate to the spaces available to them. They should want to attack a well defended advanced production Storage Silo, vs a lightly defended remote resource collector. Not only because it will disrupt someone's production but because there's loot to be had! Ex: (Legion) Scouts that infiltrated the Command Center (via some sort of Espionage oriented gameplay contract?) discovered that the Silo was just refilled from orbit in the last 12h.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8693	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:35:00 - [11] - Quote Roran Theron wrote: As an Eve player who's #1 income is PI - if my gold mine became dependent on an FPS game I'd be pissed lol. Are you saying that mercenaries could attack/defend Eve player's PI installations? I didn't see any Eve players complaining about high sec Customs Offices becoming destructible and easily replaced with POCOs by players. Everyone just said "hell yeah, let's grief colony owners". As an incentive, legionaries can help Eve players increase colony yield if offered the chance. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3469	Posted - 2014.05.23 16:03:00 - [12] - Quote Sigourney Reever wrote: 1st off, lets forget about 'eve pilots in an uproar'. They're supposed to be 'in an uproar if its because MORE features were added to the game. They're not to be coddled. CCP tells them 'what to do' with every expansion and patch. It was only when they tried that without adding features to the game that people became upset. The vision of EVEOnline+(Legion)+Valkyrie is bigger than, or at least it should be. Let CCP iterate on PI by adding defensive capabilities (Installations, Defense Contracts, Warning alerts, and orbital bombardments) to protect their installations. As it is, eve players can destroy and recreate everything but their command post at any time, from anywhere in space. Iterating in some mechanics to allow for upgrades and reconfiguring the passive time mechanic as it relates to vulnerability of attack is relatively simple. Remember, Eve Player's inherent advantage should be Mobility and Scale. The Macro. They control the cosmos, they can rain brimstone from the sky. The Merc's advantage vs Eve Players should be Access. The Micro. Getting into (and out of) tight spaces. (those left open by other inhabitants of New Eden) Like waking up and realizing your kitchen is full of ants or worse, rats! They're in the walls and its time to get a Cat, or a Terrier. I do think your suggestion would be in the best interest of the game. I am not so sure how many EVE players would put what is best for the game over their own interests. I am not so sure that CCP wants to risk setting off that firestorm. I do thank that much of what you point out is needed could be implemented in ways that are less controversial than making current PI setups conquerable by Legion mercs. So in summery, I agree with you, but I am pessimistic. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Sigourney Reever Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 26	Posted - 2014.05.23 16:09:00 - [13] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: So in summery, I agree with you, but I am pessimistic. I'm definitely Pessimistic too. CCP has proven itself to be its own worst enemy for years now.


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