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DON'T INCREASE CLONE PACK PRICE

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843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1301	Posted - 2014.05.22 21:03:00 - [1] - Quote It's been said by a lot of people that we need to increase the clone count on the packs and I'm glad to see that going through but if the price increases too that just makes the situation worse. The problem with clone packs is that it makes PC incredibly inaccessible to smaller corporations. 36 million is already a lot of ISK for a lot of corporations, any more than that people are not going to be able to afford despite having more clones. Decrease the ISK cost, increase clone count. 25 million ISK for 150 clones. If it isn't too difficult, a system in place where the more districts you have the more a clone pack costs wouldn't be so bad, either. Brb, sister needs the TV
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 370	Posted - 2014.05.22 21:09:00 - [2] - Quote agreed, ccp needs to get their head out of their ass on this one. Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 370	Posted - 2014.05.22 21:10:00 - [3] - Quote 843 Epidemic wrote: If it isn't too difficult, a system in place where the more districts you have the more a clone pack costs wouldn't be so bad, either. this...could...be...applied...to...passive isk income as well. Makes sense, the more you own, the higher your upkeep. Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7739	Posted - 2014.05.23 09:24:00 - [4] - Quote The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1518	Posted - 2014.05.23 10:05:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. Uh-huh, tell me, how wilk that work when the refund is gone? And you can make it so the packs are lower but everything is the same idk but it's easy. Closed beta vet.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3120	Posted - 2014.05.23 10:17:00 - [6] - Quote Tbh the current is broken at its foundation level. And needs a complete rework, they wont be able to hotfix themsleves out of this one :-( "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1249	Posted - 2014.05.23 10:28:00 - [7] - Quote deleted
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1075	Posted - 2014.05.23 11:56:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. Yes, BUT by increasing the cost you are handing all of the long-term PC farming corps an EZ route straight back into PC..... They have farmed billions in the time CCP turned a blind eye... By increasing costs/reducing profit you are seriously screwing corps getting into PC And handing it right back to guys who are the cause of these AFK fights ....... So rather than stop the AFKing in PC... You make it so all the AFK farmer corps Get EZ tickets to get back into holding Districts............ Nice LogicBro.... I get your reasoning behind the changes, but your execution is poor 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1309	Posted - 2014.05.23 12:43:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. There is that, but with the increased cost the barriers to entry are even higher, promoting the idea that only elite/rich corps can get into PC Brb, sister needs the TV
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3951	Posted - 2014.05.23 12:46:00 - [10] - Quote I think despite the potential issues with locking that clone packs need to be cheap. And the battles need to spin up within an hour. I don't care what that means for land holders, it gives us team deploy content. Level 3 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Dalmont Legrand 427	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:03:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. Making small corporations unite into alliance in order to join cash for PC is a must-be as we have to push players into uniting as it helps not only in cash it just binds people. This will also decrease number of corporations created out of small packs of larger corporations, more loyalty into the concept. The best is yet to come CPM1 Candidate
Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 280	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:15:00 - [12] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think despite the potential issues with locking that clone packs need to be cheap. And the battles need to spin up within an hour. I don't care what that means for land holders, it gives us team deploy content. Leaving something with "potential issues" will almost always result in the system being abused. One of the announced changes was increasing ISK payouts from battles, so prices need to be adjusted to account for that so people don't just farm alt corp packs. If you want team deploy content, I'd rather see them focus on getting full team FW in the game so people can play as a team as much as they want, when they want. FW also uses a much larger map pool, so you get more diverse play. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3953	Posted - 2014.05.23 13:43:00 - [13] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think despite the potential issues with locking that clone packs need to be cheap. And the battles need to spin up within an hour. I don't care what that means for land holders, it gives us team deploy content. Leaving something with "potential issues" will almost always result in the system being abused. One of the announced changes was increasing ISK payouts from battles, so prices need to be adjusted to account for that so people don't just farm alt corp packs. If you want team deploy content, I'd rather see them focus on getting full team FW in the game so people can play as a team as much as they want, when they want. FW also uses a much larger map pool, so you get more diverse play. The best players in Dust have more ISK than they could ever spend. Perhaps with some exploiting in PC some of the **** players that fill the pubs will have enough ISK to stop derping around in starter fits all day. I know that's not the answer. I'd also like FW to be the team deploy answer, but they'll need to add an ISK reward or it will flop. Level 3 Forum Warrior** PSN: wbrom42
Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 281	Posted - 2014.05.23 14:21:00 - [14] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know that's not the answer. I'd also like FW to be the team deploy answer, but they'll need to add an ISK reward or it will flop. How would you feel about winners getting a much larger % of ISK than losers? Pub matches do this to a lesser degree, but I worry about players not taking the matches too seriously if the incentive for winning isn't high enough. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Kain Spero 3567	Posted - 2014.05.23 14:39:00 - [15] - Quote 843 Epidemic wrote: Decrease the ISK cost, increase clone count. 25 million ISK for 150 clones. If it isn't too difficult, a system in place where the more districts you have the more a clone pack costs wouldn't be so bad, either. I'll post what I put in the main sticky. Kain Spero wrote: A shift to active ISK generation is long overdue. As is a shift from a top down payments to a bottom up approach by utilizing increased biomass payouts. The increase in clone pack price would only need to be relative to the increase in size, so for every 10 clones to the pack you added the price would go up by 3 million ISK. That is unless their needs to be an increase in cost due to an increase in biomass payments. The balance always has to lean towards not allowing corps to self-attack with clone packs, destroy the clone pack, and as a result farm isk or lock out their district at a low cost. Also, corporations have been wasting far more ISK on clone packs that have a high probability of failure. There is another side benefit to raising biomass payments. ISK generation shifting to biomass makes it possible to recoup costs much more quickly for breaking into PC. A team that consistently wins their battles can clone pack and take a districts and then proceed to use that district to attack others. In the current system say you decided to take out a Cargo Hub. It would take three crappy clone packs ,that are too few clones to really win with anyways, so expect it to take more then 3 at best to take the district. This would result in an upfront cost of 108 million ISK plus whatever costs there are associated with fighting. You would likely land on the district with 100 clones or less, so you then have to spend at least 5 days just to fill up the district. You would then have to hold the district (without attacking or being attacked) for 2 weeks in order to barely get past breaking even. With the scenario changed to biomass being the primary income source you would need to spend 5 days defending your district from likely counter attacks because you just kicked someone's teeth in. These attacks, because of the increase biomass payment, already start to fill your coffers as you win your fights. Once you hit 5 days of regen (or sooner if you decide to be bold) you can launch an attack with minimum cost and destroy an enemies clones for a significant profit. If you send a large attack (which owning a district enables you to do) you could even wipe out another district in one go. When you wipe out that district you will likely hit ISK positive if you have been defending from other attacks and payment from clones lost in battle as well. As you see with the changes a corp has gone from an ideal scenario of recouping their investment in almost three weeks to potentially less than 1 week. Nothing changes the fact that in order to be profitable you must win your fights. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 378	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:00:00 - [16] - Quote I still like the idea of a corp without a district, and over 100 members, should get a free clone pack to attack with in a given duration, or at least a reduced price. Example Once a week. Corp A (has 100 members) gets the option to buy a clone pack for 15-20 mil, to attack another corp. This gives them the option to be able to afford a re-up more easily, and could attempt to fully take a district once a week. On average it takes 2-3 clone packs to take a district, if you win them all. Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
Kain Spero 3567	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:04:00 - [17] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: I still like the idea of a corp without a district, and over 100 members, should get a free clone pack to attack with in a given duration, or at least a reduced price. Example Once a week. Corp A (has 100 members) gets the option to buy a clone pack for 15-20 mil, to attack another corp. This gives them the option to be able to afford a re-up more easily, and could attempt to fully take a district once a week. On average it takes 2-3 clone packs to take a district, if you win them all. An interesting idea that may run afoul of folks filing alt corps with alts. Still right now though CCP is only looking to do stuff that is hot-fixable and in respect to PC takes up very limited bandwidth. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 378	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:12:00 - [18] - Quote This just boils down to CCP allowing people to abuse game mechanics for self profit, without getting punished. Which has gone on since I started playing this game. Every other game that I've played competitively , you would be perma banned, and have your hardware i.p blacklisted for comparative actions. Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 807	Posted - 2014.05.23 17:55:00 - [19] - Quote Incase people didn't get it. Price per clone from a clone pack has to be > than genolution prices to prevent ISK farming. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 383	Posted - 2014.05.23 18:01:00 - [20] - Quote Still, I would like to see alot of these cheating fucks get perma banned. It's long overdue. Perma ban a few 20 mil+sp accounts, and the rest will be too chicken ** to continue doing it. Mainly referring to lag switchers, and pc mechanic abusers (i'm sure 60k wp a match should stand out in the data in some form of fashion) Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.**

Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 284	Posted - 2014.05.23 19:11:00 - [21] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: Still, I would like to see alot of these cheating fucks get perma banned. It's long overdue. Perma ban them for what though? CCP never stated that it was against any rules to do what people in PC were doing. If it's within the game's mechanics and CCP don't tell you not to do it, then they shouldn't hand out bans. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 386	Posted - 2014.05.23 23:26:00 - [22] - Quote Not going to debate this issue, nor am I going to go digging through threads. I'm against cheating/exploiting 100%. It's considered a form of boosting, ccp mentioned in a random thread that I viewed awhile back, to send them screen shots and vids of proof of people boosting if you see them (such as the scout event). If you can't be good at a game without cheating/exploiting, then maybe that game isn't for you. Why the hell should someone be allowed to cap out in 5 games during an event, that takes the rest of the community 3 day or longer? Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3080	Posted - 2014.05.24 08:30:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. While I don't foresee this happening wth Dust, would it possible to allow players to scale their own clone packs from minimum set value of 75 clones. Define how many clones you want, then the system returns a scaled price. Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army /Gûî /\
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1520	Posted - 2014.05.24 08:51:00 - [24] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: The reason we would also be increasing the price is because the pack is basically "number of clones x cost per clone". So if we increase the number of clones, we have to increase the price. Otherwise, people will self attack with the clone packs and just farm ISK. Uh-huh, tell me, how wilk that work when the refund is gone? And you can make it so the packs are lower but everything is the same idk but it's easy. Really need lower prices You guys fixed the exploit Increase it=no more attacks from packs. Closed beta vet.


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