DUST Search - I don't understand

Godin Thekiller wrote:

ZDub 303 wrote:

Godin Thekiller wrote:

That's why you would............. manufacture them........................

Sure I can understand the appeal to that. I think they've already said they aren't bringing industry to Legion.

I would be all for manufacturing suits myself. Either via Legion or EVE. I could see running mining ops with mining drones and reprocessing salvaged modules that you dont really want (great for preventing bloat and maintaining a price floor on common items) and creating salvaged items like 'Metal Scraps' in EVE which are pretty much designed to be reprocessed.

I could see a whole market created around planetary mineral trading etc etc. There is room for a lot of depth in that.

I was just trying to explain why they decided not to, there are plenty of alternatives sure.

My point is that they should. PVE shouldn't be the sole runner of the market, as things wouldn't come in fast enough unless they **** out items though PVE, at a insane rate. But at that point, there's no point in the market unless

1: you get a very low amount of ISK, which you could just get ISK from a Cap (they said they will eventually bind the markets together)

2: the system forces you to go to the market to get the specifics that you want.

The system would be so random that it would be imo silly to go down a all PVE path to getting gear. We lose our **** after all........


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ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2970	Posted - 2014.05.21 02:29:00 - [1] - Quote What I'm assuming is the design idea of creating an environment where people always want more SP. By introducing a node-unlock system - new suits are always valuable... no matter what. In a system with increasing price for new suits, a relatively poor player could look at a tree and say. Well I really like my basic heavy suit, and I really want to try that amarr heavy but at ### ISK per suit I'll never be able to afford that. Therefore giving that player little reason to want to purchase that suit (with SP). Also, I'm not sure they want to deal with salvaging suits. They've already made it clear that all modules will be salvaged and player traded in legion. It may get messy if you are always finding tons of modules and never finding any of the one specific suit you wish to run. I think they are trying to get away from having anything NPC seeded (eventually at least, probably will start with a seeded market). I'm not saying I necessarily agree or disagree with the design decision but that's the only explanation I can come up with for it. I don't know if its a crisis either though, the additional cost will just be wrapped up in the modules and weapons. Higher tier suits = more module slots = naturally higher isk cost. If we're worried about specialist suits making earlier generalist suits completely useless (where a cheaper price could be a very valid reason to use them) you can always give generalist suits higher base stats and less module slots - giving those suits a naturally cheaper price as well. That is all I can really think to explain it. I can see valid reasons to use either design.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2970	Posted - 2014.05.21 03:10:00 - [2] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: That's why you would............. manufacture them........................ Sure I can understand the appeal to that. I think they've already said they aren't bringing industry to Legion. I would be all for manufacturing suits myself. Either via Legion or EVE. I could see running mining ops with mining drones and reprocessing salvaged modules that you dont really want (great for preventing bloat and maintaining a price floor on common items) and creating salvaged items like 'Metal Scraps' in EVE which are pretty much designed to be reprocessed. I could see a whole market created around planetary mineral trading etc etc. There is room for a lot of depth in that. I was just trying to explain why they decided not to, there are plenty of alternatives sure.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2970	Posted - 2014.05.21 03:42:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: That's why you would............. manufacture them........................ Sure I can understand the appeal to that. I think they've already said they aren't bringing industry to Legion. I would be all for manufacturing suits myself. Either via Legion or EVE. I could see running mining ops with mining drones and reprocessing salvaged modules that you dont really want (great for preventing bloat and maintaining a price floor on common items) and creating salvaged items like 'Metal Scraps' in EVE which are pretty much designed to be reprocessed. I could see a whole market created around planetary mineral trading etc etc. There is room for a lot of depth in that. I was just trying to explain why they decided not to, there are plenty of alternatives sure. My point is that they should. PVE shouldn't be the sole runner of the market, as things wouldn't come in fast enough unless they ** out items though PVE, at a insane rate. But at that point, there's no point in the market unless 1: you get a very low amount of ISK, which you could just get ISK from a Cap (they said they will eventually bind the markets together) 2: the system forces you to go to the market to get the specifics that you want. The system would be so random that it would be imo silly to go down a all PVE path to getting gear. We lose our after all........ I assume the idea is to be flooded with common modules (std) and have a harder time finding the uncommon and rare ones. It would be nice to be able to break down commons and use the mats to build higher meta modules though. You could make it so that adv modules require only minerals to produce (with appropriate skills) and pro modules require rare salvaged materials from low sec and null sec. A similar type of combine system to tech I and tech II in EVE. Tech II very often (if not always, not that familiar with tech II industry in EVE) requires non-mineral materials to create stuff. Could give a real purpose to planetary conquest as well. Own a planet, toss a refining installation = less refining waste from reprocessing common modules, toss on a research lab to generate pro materials. All sorts of cool **. I'm certainly all for it man, don't get me wrong. I'm really getting into Industry in EVE and it would be a great system in Legion.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2972	Posted - 2014.05.21 04:24:00 - [4] - Quote One thing to consider though is, as they say, mining is the back-bone of industry in EVE. If they are deciding not to bring mining or some sort of analogue to legion, then by its very nature the equipment system in legion cannot be a copy of eve. So that really becomes a pivotal design decision. If its salvage/loot only then there is a case to be made for BPO dropsuits, as I explained above. It pretty much comes down to design cost. They only have so many resources at their disposal and there may not be enough for a full industry system in Legion.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2976	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:00:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Also, if the price of it goes into the modules, then what's the point of it all? That just means that the price would stay about the same, and since there's tiercide (honestly looking at the suit tree that Z proposed, it still seems like there's tiers still, just not as bad as before; like it has a whole bunch of basic suits and then several layers of T II suits, which seems entirely unnecessary imo). They obviously have some sort of reason for wanting to do free suits. The real question is, why not do it?
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2976	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:06:00 - [6] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Also, if the price of it goes into the modules, then what's the point of it all? That just means that the price would stay about the same, and since there's tiercide (honestly looking at the suit tree that Z proposed, it still seems like there's tiers still, just not as bad as before; like it has a whole bunch of basic suits and then several layers of T II suits, which seems entirely unnecessary imo). They obviously have some sort of reason for wanting to do free suits. The real question is, why not do it? Because, as I said already a thousand times, there's no point in it, and it takes away from manufacturing and the market. Can you read? Its been said multiple times that Legion wont have manufacturing... Can you read?
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2977	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:14:00 - [7] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Also, if the price of it goes into the modules, then what's the point of it all? That just means that the price would stay about the same, and since there's tiercide (honestly looking at the suit tree that Z proposed, it still seems like there's tiers still, just not as bad as before; like it has a whole bunch of basic suits and then several layers of T II suits, which seems entirely unnecessary imo). They obviously have some sort of reason for wanting to do free suits. The real question is, why not do it? Because, as I said already a thousand times, there's no point in it, and it takes away from manufacturing and the market. Can you read? Its been said multiple times that Legion wont have manufacturing... Can you read? I've already told you (twice) how I feel about that. You didn't answer the question, You feel all you want... if there is no manufacturing in Legion - there are reasons to make dropsuits free at least until manufacturing can be added in.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2981	Posted - 2014.05.23 19:50:00 - [8] - Quote If we take the dropsuit progression prototype from Z's presentation, I think we're gonna have something like so for one of the paths (lets choose assault): Academy Suit Basic Medium Suit Basic Assault Suit 'Racial' Assault Suit. I'm curious Godin, with a tiercided system, what do you think each of these should approximately cost?